fraud case

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rana umer
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:07 am

fraud case

Post by rana umer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:32 am

Hello,

I had a trade with a person on tori.fi. He promised to send the package through post. I made the payment to him through his bank transfer. However, He has cheated me and did not send the package. His behavior and deception has made me very upset and I registered my complain in police station. police caught him and he confess his crime. police sent this case to court and i have been refused to give public lawyer as i was working at that time and they have asked me to do it privately. so i took help from a private lawyer to ready my claim and he told me not to worry about his fee as i had home insurance so he said he will get his fee from them he even didnot discuss his fee with me and not signed any paper or contract with me. the case started and in one year he just wrote 1 paper claim and one time he visited tampree from helsinki where the court just give new date because of absent of criminal so he came back without doing anything. only these 2 things.

Now the housing insurance refused to pay him and he is asking me to pay 2500 euro for these 2 things which he did. My initial money loss was 420 euro in that fraud. I believe this lawyer is also playing game with me. I am in stress dont know the laws and rules in this situation what to do?



fraud case

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betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: fraud case

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:54 am

rana umer wrote: I had a trade with a person on tori.fi. He promised to send the package through post. I made the payment to him through his bank transfer. However, He has cheated me and did not send the package. His behavior and deception has made me very upset and I registered my complain in police station. police caught him and he confess his crime. police sent this case to court and i have been refused to give public lawyer as i was working at that time and they have asked me to do it privately. so i took help from a private lawyer to ready my claim and he told me not to worry about his fee as i had home insurance so he said he will get his fee from them he even didnot discuss his fee with me and not signed any paper or contract with me. the case started and in one year he just wrote 1 paper claim and one time he visited tampree from helsinki where the court just give new date because of absent of criminal so he came back without doing anything. only these 2 things.

Now the housing insurance refused to pay him and he is asking me to pay 2500 euro for these 2 things which he did. My initial money loss was 420 euro in that fraud. I believe this lawyer is also playing game with me. I am in stress dont know the laws and rules in this situation what to do?
It indeed sounds scammy to me to not make it clear to the client that the costs of the lawyer are significantly higher than the financial interest of the case. Assuming the lawyer is a member of the Finnish Bar Association you can rely on the following which requires your consent for anything that is over the deductible of the insurance:
Asianajaja, joka saa palkkionsa ja kulujensa korvauksen oikeusturvavakuutuksesta, ei saa periä asiakkaalta oikeusturvavakuutusehtojen mukaan korvattavista toimenpiteistä palkkiona tai kulujen korvauksena enempää kuin vakuutusehtojen mukaisen omavastuuosuuden, ellei asianajaja ole tehtävää vastaanottaessaan sopinut asiasta toisin asiakkaansa kanssa.

Asianajajan on saatava asiakkaalta suostumus ennen ryhtymistä toimenpiteisiin, jotka oikeusturvavakuutusehtojen perusteella eivät todennäköisesti kuulu oikeusturvavakuutuksesta korvattaviksi. (11.6.2010)
I would propose to him that you will pay what the deductible in your insurance would have been.

https://www.asianajajaliitto.fi/files/1 ... u_2010.pdf


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wolf80
Posts: 382
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:43 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: fraud case

Post by wolf80 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:51 pm

rana umer wrote:Hello,

I had a trade with a person on tori.fi. He promised to send the package through post. I made the payment to him through his bank transfer. However, He has cheated me and did not send the package. His behavior and deception has made me very upset and I registered my complain in police station. police caught him and he confess his crime. police sent this case to court and i have been refused to give public lawyer as i was working at that time and they have asked me to do it privately. so i took help from a private lawyer to ready my claim and he told me not to worry about his fee as i had home insurance so he said he will get his fee from them he even didnot discuss his fee with me and not signed any paper or contract with me. the case started and in one year he just wrote 1 paper claim and one time he visited tampree from helsinki where the court just give new date because of absent of criminal so he came back without doing anything. only these 2 things.

Now the housing insurance refused to pay him and he is asking me to pay 2500 euro for these 2 things which he did. My initial money loss was 420 euro in that fraud. I believe this lawyer is also playing game with me. I am in stress dont know the laws and rules in this situation what to do?
Sorry to hear. I would do what betelgeuse said, but unless you have written proof that the lawyer claimed the insurance would cover his fees you might not have a case, it will just be word-against-word. A written contract is not necessary anyway if you made an oral contract. You can now of course refuse to pay and hire another lawyer to handle the case for you, but word-against-word concerning an oral contract with a lawyer might not work out well for you, and you might end up with even more money to pay. But it's your decision if you want to suck it or continue to fight.

I personally cannot understand people who hire a lawyer (known to cost a lot of money) without asking for and agreeing on the exact fees. You would not go to the hairdresser without asking how much it costs. And then again not checking with the insurance company yourself if they pay for a lawyer or not. You are the contract partner to all of them, so it's your responsibility to to get all the information you need.


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Piet
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:45 pm
Location: Finland

Re: fraud case

Post by Piet » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:02 pm

I don't get it,

How can the lawyer charge you when the case is not over yet? His job is not finished until the the court case is finished.
If the court case is finished, why are the legal costs not payable by the criminal that surely was convicted.

The lawyer should have made the request for damages including the legal costs during trial, if he didn't, he did not do his job properly and therefore there is no need to pay (he did not full-fill his contract...yet).

Seems to me the lawyer can be charged with malpractice and taken away his licence, of course I do not know the ins and outs of this case but this surely stinks.

You did not sign anything and he did not disclose his costs per hour with you, you do not need to pay anything. There is no signature from you under any contract with him, so he offered to help you for free in a verbal contract. He can not prove differently, what counts for you, counts also for him. He cannot prove you agreed to a certain fee so there is no fee!

Did you already get a specified bill from your lawyer? This must be done first anyway. I would fight till the end (but that is me), soon you will have no money any more and are illegible to help from oikeusaputoimisto and social office anyway.

Follow the advise of betelgeuse, with that difference that you agree only to a bill that will be paid as your lawyer said would be paid by your insurance, that means if the insurance pays nothing you pay nothing. That was the deal / contract. He cannot prove you had another contract with him (which you didn't).

At least that would be my action. But as said, I do not know the details of this case.

Good luck.
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betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: fraud case

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:03 pm

Piet wrote: How can the lawyer charge you when the case is not over yet? His job is not finished until the the court case is finished.
If the court case is finished, why are the legal costs not payable by the criminal that surely was convicted.
The other party is likely to be without assets and can't be collected from.


Upphew
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: fraud case

Post by Upphew » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:39 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Piet wrote: How can the lawyer charge you when the case is not over yet? His job is not finished until the the court case is finished.
If the court case is finished, why are the legal costs not payable by the criminal that surely was convicted.
The other party is likely to be without assets and can't be collected from.
Just guessing here, but I'm not sure how easily judges think about thousands of euros of legal fees when the case is done by public prosecutor. In criminal cases the victim rarely needs a lawyer.
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