How true are these facts about many Finns?

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newtofinland
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How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by newtofinland » Wed May 30, 2018 2:13 pm

Hi

I am comparatively new to Finland. A few days back, I read the following news and came to know about the opinions of many Finns, who study abroad, about many Finnish people in Finland. The news states:

"Mostly students are concerned about the lack of career opportunities and poor employment prospects in Finland. In addition, many consider the country to be bigoted, narrow-minded and intolerant.

According to Kauppalehti, the respondents view their countrymen and women as socially inept, cold, unfriendly and stiff. One respondent called Finland xenophobic, bitter, indecisive and regressive, while another said the country was wasting its potential by closing itself from the world and not having the guts to look to the future, Kauppalehti said."


https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/mond ... l/10225757

I see and I have been told many times that many Finns are modest, polite, nice, and helpful. Especially girls are really open to particular foreigners and one friend gave me this link to prove his opinions:
http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/fin ... nland.html.

I have also been told by some foreigners that many Finns are opposite towards many foreigners especially foreigners from Non-EU and less developed countries.

My questions are:
1. How true are these facts stated in the news about many Finns?
2. Are many Finns discriminating towards particular foreigners from non-EU countries?
3. Are the job opportunities in Finland after university graduation really bad that these Finns (studying in overseas) do not want to come back to Finland?

It would be nice if you just would not only share your personal opinions but also evidence-based opinions. However, I would appreciate the latter.



How true are these facts about many Finns?

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riku2
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by riku2 » Thu May 31, 2018 11:55 am

the findings are mostly due to who was asked

"She laments that only 22 percent of Finns studying abroad regard Finland as attractive, and 8 percent deem Finland to be international."

The people that study abroad see finland in a different light and certainly finland is not international the way that the UK or Netherlands are (whether you consider that is a plus or minus is another issue). But Finns are often blind to the positive things in Finland since they are used to them - lack of crime compared to UK for example.

personally speaking about 100 people applied for the job I got in 2014 and the hiring manager later said that being foreign was an advantage for me compared to finnish applicants, they knew that I could be sent to visit customers around the world without worry since I was already used to being in a foreign country.

finns and discrimination - I feel (as a brit) that I probably get treated better than locals by shop staff for example but if you are black or dark skinned eastern european then I don't think this will be the case (not always but sometimes).


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ajdias
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by ajdias » Thu May 31, 2018 3:12 pm

Yes, it is a pretty universal attitude, when you are abroad and enjoying you look for reasons why your current place is better than home. When you decide to return (let's say 10 years after graduating, when you are ready to raise a family) you "start discovering" small annoyances about your host country and why Finland is such a wonderful place and how much you miss it..

1. How true are these facts stated in the news about many Finns?
Yes, there is true to it.

2. Are many Finns discriminating towards particular foreigners from non-EU countries?
The more you are perceived an expat the less discrimination you face, you may even face positive discrimination (if you limit yourself to the right circles, hang in the right places, have a good job and network). The more you are to be perceived as an immigrant the more negative discrimination you will face. Keyword is perceived: color of skin, your origin and accent, even your demeanor and the way you carry yourself affect how people act towards you.

3. Are the job opportunities in Finland after university graduation really bad that these Finns (studying in overseas) do not want to come back to Finland?
Generally speaking opportunities are worse than for someone with a corresponding degree and experience (unless the employers are looking for exactly that kind of skills.)


lifeisfun
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by lifeisfun » Thu May 31, 2018 3:52 pm

Here you can find more information in the links below and decide by yourself about the truths:

"With its inhospitable climate and indecipherable language, Finland can be a confusing and challenging place. The Finns are a complex bunch too – they don’t seem to take well to either praise or criticism and they have an unwavering belief that there are two ways to do things: there is the Finnish way, and there is the wrong way. Within this environment, and against this political backdrop, I began to understand a little more about my classmates’ struggles to integrate into both the country and the society."

https://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/genera ... immigrant/


Finns on Finns: "We're hard working, but greedy and intolerant"

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finn ... nt/7370176


More about discrimination and so on

"A 2011 poll shows that 66% of Finnish respondents considered Finland to be a racist country but only 14% admitted to being racists themselves.[1] Minority groups getting the most negative attitudes were Finnish Kale, Somalis and ethnic groups mostly consisting of Muslims."

The real number can be more than just 14%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Finland

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/four ... n/10196547

Foreign-sounding names still hamper job search. (You should also read the related news section below the news)

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/fore ... ch/9766036

Yle uncovers discrimination in job market and nightclub queues
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/yle_ ... es/6885954

Have you come up against unfair hiring practices in Finland?
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/have ... nd/7357822




On the other hands, there are good things as well.

"According to Elli Heikkilä, research director at the Institute of Migration in Turku, the largest numbers of foreign wives married to Finnish men come from Thailand, Russia and China."

"For their part, Finnish women married to foreigners have most often found husbands from Turkey, the UK and Sweden."

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/husb ... nd/6563519

Best place in the world to be a mother is Finland
https://edition.cnn.com/2013/05/08/busi ... index.html

Finnish education systems are claimed to be one of the best. However, one should read these following links as well

Study: Two-thirds of ninth graders unable to calculate percentages
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/stud ... es/8835412

University applicant interest in hard sciences plummets
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/univ ... ts/8824408

Finnish pupils' PISA results decline
https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finn ... ne/6966136

Finland funding cuts a ‘catastrophe’ for research

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/ne ... vey-answer



Hope you will find a balance between these things and find the right place for you.


FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:06 am

newtofinland wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:13 pm
3. Are the job opportunities in Finland after university graduation really bad that these Finns (studying in overseas) do not want to come back to Finland?
I don't think that applies only to Finland, wherever one has done their studies, likely most of their connections and therefore potential employers in their given field are in that country. Not to mention the original reasons a person has had to move to study abroad, probably at least some of which still apply.


clausc
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by clausc » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:59 am

newtofinland wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:13 pm
3. Are the job opportunities in Finland after university graduation really bad that these Finns (studying in overseas) do not want to come back to Finland?
The marginal benefits of higher education are lower in Finland. Not to mention the other constraining social factors. The marginal benefits at the other end of that scale are proportionately better which goes some way to explaining the profiles of those departing vs. those arriving vs. those that just stay away in the first place.


Marsh04
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by Marsh04 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:05 pm

To be honest and ignoring the political correctness most of the answers to your questions depend on your background. If you are brown or black your degrees are already not worth as much as a white person's. If English is your mother tongue that gives you a bit of advantage. But skin colour becomes a deciding factor in a lot of situations and jobs. If you have studied computer related subjects chances of being hired are a lot higher than any other field


Oho
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by Oho » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:48 pm

newtofinland wrote:
Wed May 30, 2018 2:13 pm
Hi...
Well shooting the messenger here a bit but those answers are just as reflective of the people providing them as they are of Finland or Finns. Hardly an unbiased sample: students that for what ever reason chose to move abroad to study.


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browndude
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by browndude » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:13 pm

The facts are not accurate. As many have already said, the sample is biased. People who study abroad are typically young and dare I say naive (speaking from experience here). After a few years abroad, they start seeing the less than rosy aspects of being abroad and start to understand and appreciate the exceptional things about Finland.
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Oho
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by Oho » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:27 pm

According to Kauppalehti, the respondents view their countrymen and women as socially inept, cold, unfriendly and stiff. One respondent called Finland xenophobic, bitter, indecisive and regressive, while another said the country was wasting its potential by closing itself from the world and not having the guts to look to the future, Kauppalehti said.
I found this bit ironically funny. Sounds like a comment from a bitter looser, probably male, who could not get laid....

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Upphew
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by Upphew » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:27 am

Oho wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:27 pm
According to Kauppalehti, the respondents view their countrymen and women as socially inept, cold, unfriendly and stiff. One respondent called Finland xenophobic, bitter, indecisive and regressive, while another said the country was wasting its potential by closing itself from the world and not having the guts to look to the future, Kauppalehti said.
I found this bit ironically funny. Sounds like a comment from a bitter looser, probably male, who could not get laid....
The survey was sent to 3787 students who are getting money from Kela and are studying abroad. They got 1422 (according to kauppalehti.fi, 1420 according to the study) responses. 87 of those checked the "sulkeutunut ja ahdasmielinen yhteiskunta". For more info see https://www.oph.fi/julkaisut/2018/suoma ... akouluissa whole publication is available there.

edit. 75% of the responses were from women. Dunno how loose or sexless they are....
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ajdias
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by ajdias » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:58 am

Oho wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:27 pm
Sounds like a comment from a bitter looser, probably male, who could not get laid....
Did you just assume the gender?


Y77
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Re: How true are these facts about many Finns?

Post by Y77 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:39 am

I've been living here for about 8 years and i think this is a very good country. it has given me a lot, much more than my own native land. The Finns that I know are generally polite and nice, but I live in a nice neighbourhood, so things might be different in council estates in Vantaa or, more likely,Kotka(where the highest percentage of people on disability and unemployment benefit live)

During these years I've always made the mistake to think that this country, although very good, wasn't actually the best place to be. The problem behind this idea is that I've always compared it with places like Malaga or Nice, but then, when you travel to really bad places like Russia or Cairo(where I've been recently, worst place on the planet) you'll realize how nice, clean, safe, unpolluted, silent and organized Finland is. So my suggestion, to anyone fed up with Finland is to go and see what real crap holes look like, then you'll be back with a total different outlooks on things.


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