Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

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wolf80
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Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

Post by wolf80 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 pm

suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:13 pm


And this is what leads to anarchy, if you ever read the likes of Dostoevsky, Plato, etc. What happens when the rules are rules and people obey them without questioning or expressing their views? What do you think? Should the "mere" guards during the WWII be punished? After all, they were just following the "rules". As I said, I agree, safety is mandatory! I am not downplaying that at all.

BTW, even the police understand that. They usually subtract a certain number from the indicated speed, to ensure that the law is not in absolute stupidity and a mockery! E.g. absolute would be a fine at 61, when the speed is 60.
You are wrong in that. Anarchy comes from people thinking they have the freedom not to follow rules. When they think that stepping over the line is right simply because they cannot see the reason for the existence of the line. The line must be enforced often enough so people obey it. For people are stupid and often do not want to see reason. The cow also learns that it cannot break the line when it encounters the force of the electric fence. It will then, at least for a while, obey the rules.

I do not care about philosophers dead two and a half millennia, or even for those gone some decades. Society changes. These are the rules now. You have free will, and this means you have the freedom to break the rules. Society will punish you for it, as these are the rules agreed upon in a system based on democracy. Feel free to vote. Feel free to stand for election. Feel free to break the rules heavily, and you will find that prisons are a wonderful place for philosophy.

The reason a certain number is subtracted from the speed measured by a speed camera is not a philosophical one. It is simply to accommodate the measuring inaccuracy of the device. That is where the line is drawn.



Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

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undertakerfreak
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Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

Post by undertakerfreak » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:34 pm

I've never seen a grown man so butthurt over a speeding ticket - not even in America. Grow up and leave.

suomynona.yllatot
Posts: 89
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Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:31 pm

wolf80 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 pm
Anarchy comes from people thinking they have the freedom not to follow rules.
Nope, wolf80. If you only read. That is the neo-definition of the word anarchy. Look up what anarchism really is.
wolf80 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 pm
When they think that stepping over the line is right simply because they cannot see the reason for the existence of the line. The line must be enforced often enough so people obey it.

For people are stupid and often do not want to see reason. The cow also learns that it cannot break the line when it encounters the force of the electric fence. It will then, at least for a while, obey the rules.
Combining the two above, there are primarily two ways to control people, either by force, or control the thinking. You'll find examples of these all over the world. Let's take the latter: Pledge of allegiance, national anthems, flags, nationalism, all these. Including laws that break the objective and make a mockery of the system itself.
wolf80 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 pm
I do not care about philosophers dead two and a half millennia, or even for those gone some decades. Society changes. These are the rules now. You have free will, and this means you have the freedom to break the rules. Society will punish you for it, as these are the rules agreed upon in a system based on democracy. Feel free to vote. Feel free to stand for election. Feel free to break the rules heavily, and you will find that prisons are a wonderful place for philosophy.
Oh I wish you did read! People should read. Especially when you have such arguments. The 21st century has been by far the most corrupt and bloodiest in history! Read history if you want quantification. The problem is when you confuse free-will with that that is imposed without questioning! You could quote "democracy", nope, it is NOT. Democracy is largely oligarchy. Run by a few above the others. And what if society at large, including native Finns are NOT agreeing with this gaming approach to traffic fines? Everybody wrong?
wolf80 wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:08 pm
The reason a certain number is subtracted from the speed measured by a speed camera is not a philosophical one. It is simply to accommodate the measuring inaccuracy of the device. That is where the line is drawn.
There is a paper on that. Written by a Finnish person (Aho) who used to work in the Ministry of Transport, now retired, with all the mathematical computations. Physicist! Him wrong too? BTW, if at all you want absolutes, shouldn't even the accommodation/ accuracy be ignored?
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?

Upphew
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Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

Post by Upphew » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:40 am

suomynona.yllatot wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:31 pm
Oh I wish you did read! People should read. Especially when you have such arguments. The 21st century has been by far the most corrupt and bloodiest in history! Read history if you want quantification. The problem is when you confuse free-will with that that is imposed without questioning! You could quote "democracy", nope, it is NOT. Democracy is largely oligarchy. Run by a few above the others. And what if society at large, including native Finns are NOT agreeing with this gaming approach to traffic fines? Everybody wrong?
Bloodiest? No effing way! Give me something that compares to Battle of Somme or death toll of WW2 from this century. And it certainly was last century that had our politicians being pampered by the trade unions and entrepreneurs. Negotiating traffic fines and paying in cash in our eastern neighbour, last century.

I view the traffic fines fine way to finance government. Just like gambling. Tax for the dummies. Both are easily avoidable. I would like to see licenses suspended more often. Maybe not for as long as they now are. And I wouldn't mind few classes in driving school for requirement to get the license back. And courts should use their power to confiscate the tools that were used to commit the crime more often.
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suomynona.yllatot
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Re: Another speeding/ fine question/ Unmarked car

Post by suomynona.yllatot » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:43 pm

Upphew wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:40 am
Bloodiest? No effing way! Give me something that compares to Battle of Somme or death toll of WW2 from this century.
Yaaah! My mistake Upphew! Being out of timezone really messes me up! Late evening office dinners, beers and more...! :beer_yum: :beer_yum: :beer_yum: :wink: It was meant to say 20-21st, i.e. the 20th and 21st century!
Upphew wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:40 am
I view the traffic fines fine way to finance government. Just like gambling. Tax for the dummies. Both are easily avoidable. I would like to see licenses suspended more often. Maybe not for as long as they now are.
Agreed, that's my view too!
Upphew wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:40 am
And I wouldn't mind few classes in driving school for requirement to get the license back. And courts should use their power to confiscate the tools that were used to commit the crime more often.
Principally, yes, that's what I would agree with as well. If one is really endangering the traffic, yes. They shouldn't be playing games!
Yep, it is! What's the big deal?


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