WORK IN FINLAND

[Rosamunda]

Economist March 8th edition p 24 (this is a BIG ad, 1/4 page)

WORK - in - FINLAND

FInland - the icy pearl of Scandinavia - is suffering from a severe labour shortage. This is a problem for many businesses and professions. Many Finnish companies therefore have a wide variety of openings in areas such as IT, Business Law, Marketing and FInance. So why not pack up your brain and head North. For further information visit:

http://www.kauppalehti.fi/workinfinland


The kauppalehti link then links to Monster which hosts over 1000 job ads in Finland. Most are in Finnish and totally unintelligible to a foreigner even if s/he has "packed up" his/her brain!

[kay30]

Oh great. Can't wait for the deluge of people coming on to this BB and wondering why they cannot find work after having moved here and just "thinking positive".

"But wait! I speak English as a native language AND there was an ad that said how easy it was!"

[shrecher]

FInland - the icy pearl of Scandinavia - is suffering from a severe labour shortage. This is a problem for many businesses and professions.

The kauppalehti link then links to Monster which hosts over 1000 job ads in Finland.

Absolutely agree with Kauppalehti, this is exactly what I was always saying. I would only add "FInland is suffering from a severe labor of qualified professionals shortage", but I guess this is assumed between lines.

[rinso]

Absolutely agree with Kauppalehti, this is exactly what I was always saying.

You know it, I know it and kauppalehti knows it.
But what about all these recruiting officers that keep on hiring Fins instead of foreigners?

As long as there are still options for them, they can ignore the coming shortage.
It would have been better if kauppalehti had written an article to convince the employers.

[Tiwaz]

Well, those employment offers are in finnish so it should give everyone who has two braincells to rub together that there might be some hidden requirements there...

Like, speaking and writing local language...

But some might imagine, with some encouragement from unnamed parts of population, that communicating with local barbarians is not actually required to live in any given country.

[Hank W.]

They have a "shortage" because they're too damn picky.

[mmac]

The kauppalehti link then links to Monster which hosts over 1000 job ads in Finland. Most are in Finnish and totally unintelligible to a foreigner even if s/he has "packed up" his/her brain!

I'm a well educated, qualified IT professional with more than 10 years experience which this appears to be the target group for this ad. Hardest part is finding the vacancies to apply for, or at least has been for me, not being able to read Finnish. Interestingly enough most of the Finnish friends i have didn't seem to think it would be a problem to get work here as a native english speaker - seems to be a common misconception amongst a lot of Finnish people.

Thankfully i found this forum first and based on the advice here I decided to wait on quitting the UK job to be with my partner. So Till i find that elusive vacancy I guess i'm doomed to live in two Cities gaining lots of Finnair Plus points

[shrecher]

They have a "shortage" because they're too damn picky.

Or candidates are not qualified enough.

[Tiwaz]

They have a "shortage" because they're too damn picky.

Or candidates are not qualified enough.

Expectations are unrealistic.

They want guy with 15 years of experience from similar duties but he should not be older than 25.

Most eventually scale down their expectations if they really need more workforce and fill it with whomever is closest to their requirements.

[debonaire]

Finally Kauppalehti agrees with me...This is what I have always been saying...Severe shortage of skilled and qualified labor...But some people on this foruum are too rigid to admit this and hold on to their decade old thinking about employment in Finland...Finland desperately needs qualified foreigners to keep its economy in shape,irrespective of how rude it may sound to some finns...but the fact is that in the long run,Finland can't do without skilled foreigners...And kindly don't expect these qualified foreigners to be fluent in finnish while filling up the labor shortage at the same time... I am sorry but Finland really doesn't have the numbers to do it on its own and hence it has to rely on foreign help...

[Tiwaz]

Hey, nobody is saying there isn't room for skilled and qualified (assuming your qualifications are recognised in Finland... Just that you are thisorthat in whateveristan does NOT equal being qualified HERE) immigrants.

However, what some people sternly refuse to realise is that this is FINLAND.
You know, little like "This is SPARTAAAA!!!" though we don't anymore have bottomless pits to fill with immigrants.

Reality is, in Finland either you speak finnish/swedish or you are odd one out who doesn't really fit in. Finland and finns won't change to better satisfy needs of immigrants, it is immigrant who has to change.

And high unemployment and busy school system makes sure there will be some finn who can be groomed to fill task where immigrant could fit in. It is just question of time and effort, either keep looking or take someone who is available and train them to fit the work. If immigrant beats finn to apply and is able to deal with language and culture, they get the job. If they can't...

Well, it is same as working with only able to speak swahili in China to make it bit more clear to some of you. You MAY find suitable little corner but odds are not as good as if you spoke fluent chinese.


So what is expected is that this skilled immigrant either has sorted out his/her job beforehand or is capable of living in finnish society as it is while looking for that job.

Part of being in society means communicating in ways this society uses for it. Language and culture.

Or we can kick you into bottomless pit. Your call.

[sammy]

Finland and finns won't change to better satisfy needs of immigrants, it is immigrant who has to change.

I don't completely agree with this - it's probably quite sure that Finland won't change into an english-speaking country, but that does not rule out the possibility for development towards a more immigrant-friendly society... including the difficult employment vs language skills question... and this IMO can't never be achieved by one-sided efforts, both Finns and immigrants need to work towards that goal. Whether that's considered a "burden" or a "chance/challenge", well I guess it depends on your point of view.

[Tiwaz]

Finland and finns won't change to better satisfy needs of immigrants, it is immigrant who has to change.

I don't completely agree with this - it's probably quite sure that Finland won't change into an english-speaking country, but that does not rule out the possibility for development towards a more immigrant-friendly society... including the difficult employment vs language skills question... and this IMO can't never be achieved by one-sided efforts, both Finns and immigrants need to work towards that goal. Whether that's considered a "burden" or a "chance/challenge", well I guess it depends on your point of view.

Well, what is more immigrant-friendly?

Most finns already speak at least one foreign language, most two (but one is called "second domestic" and few actually remember more than few phrases)...

It still does not change that finns by and large speak and prefer to interact in finnish. Just like french in french, italians in italian, spanish in spanish...

Odds of Finland ever building up so large immigrant society that you will have "Chinatown" or "Little Italy" in Helsinki are very small. You have to deal with natives, natives prefer to deal in finnish/swedish.

Having cashier who can't interact with clients is what we call "bad business". Having someone who needs extra set of instructions printed for him/her in different language in task X is what we call "inefficiency". Because all finns are not so fluent in english that you could just hand over all instructions in english.
Actualy, lower you go in ladder less likely you are to find person who deals equally easily with finnish and english. Of course, if workforce is predominately immigrant situation changes...

In some tasks and fields this is not quite so, IT handles much of stuff in english. But everyone has been pointing out this oddity as it is. Be IT guru and your arse is gilt as Hank would say. But most of us are not and never will be.

It is not about being immigrant-frienly, it is about language of nation being what is spoken there. No matter where you go, being unable to speak local language is going to pile up big heaps of trouble to your road.

[debonaire]

Do you really expect qualified immigrants to fill up your shotage of labor and expext them to be fluent in finnish at the same time....That would be being extremely rigid,intolerant and disrespectful...
Ofcorse this is Finland and we immigrants know it better than you because we are reminded about it at almost every phase of life here...but what Finland has to realise is that its part of a Global society...It isn't some iron curtain country with a closed economy...It is the duty of every immigrant to respect finnish culture and try their best to fit in the society but at the same time Finns have to be respectful of immigrants' culture and be tolerant enough to give them room and opportunity to grow and integrate into the society smoothly...This whole process takes time and you certainly can't expext the newbies to fill up the labor shortage and be able to communicate in finnish immediately upon their arrival...
Talking about China, I am sure you know that the number of foreigners working in China exceeds the number of foreigners in Finland by miles...Are they all learning or speaking Mandarin ...
Moreover,Finland has one of the oldest population in Europe...If it couldn't mange to groom nore young native professionals till date,how its suddenly gonna do it? Has Finland found some secret mantra to ride over this labor crisis by employing its natives only or the finns gonna go on a record reproduction cylcle to come up with the numbers...In either way,its gonna take a long time and the most immediate solution is to hire qualified professionals from abroad if finnish economy intends to be in shape...and don't expect them to be fluent in finnish because they won't be no matter how much you dislike it....You can't have your cake and eat it too...
These people can adapt themselves to finnish culture and learn the language once they are here...Its their responsibility to integrate into the society...as much as its the responsibility of finnish society to give them room to adapt to their new surroundings...Thats how a society normally funtions...when you have a new menber you don't shut him/her out but provide an opportunity to grow within the society for a smooth transition...

[Tiwaz]

You know, when in Rome you behave like roman.

Either way, I did point out that you are better off getting job first, then moving in. If you get a job, it clearly states that your employer does not mind you being unable to speak finnish.

If you do not get a job, you are not yet in Finland freezing your ass off wondering how you could get one when everywhere you are asked if you can speak local language trying to deal with everyday problems in foreign country.

What is not good idea is move in and assume you can get a job. And this is what advertisements like Kauppalehti tend to cause. Then people are surprised because they are not able to perform in their field of profession because employers are hesitant to hire someone who can't interact with clients using language of clients.

Lots of those people in China are actually sent there by their company, not moving in to look for a job.