Social Science Graduates without Finnish language

[The_Mikko]

Do we really fit into Finnish job market except those who luckily get into research projects at university? Please share your experience once u get degree from Finnish universities. What are you doing, r u able to find job, and what r the potential employers?

Regards
Mikko

[Cloudberry]

I'm assuming you completed a masters of social science degree in Finland in English?

I think the University of Helsinki has information about graduate destinations. I've just had a dig for the information that I accessed a few months ago but it no longer seems to be available. There is this: http://www.helsinki.fi/eri/career_prospects.html but it's very general. The full report is only available in Finnish. Maybe there is similar information available through the university you studied at?

[Pursuivant]

There is this: career_prospects.html but it's very general.The full report is only available in Finnish.

tells you something about the career prospects

[Cloudberry]

There is this: career_prospects.html but it's very general.The full report is only available in Finnish.

tells you something about the career prospects

Haha yeah I guess you're right

I realised a long time ago that my social science degree would do absolutely nothing for me in Finland

[Tiwaz]

Social sciences...
Isn't that something that has something to do with society and how it works?

I wonder how much need there is for social scientist who cannot communicate in preferred language of society they are dealing with...

[Pursuivant]

Well they can always depend on 3rd party heresay abridged translations off YLE or the few articles of HS ...

[Cloudberry]

Social sciences...
Isn't that something that has something to do with society and how it works?

I wonder how much need there is for social scientist who cannot communicate in preferred language of society they are dealing with...

Basically, but it depends what your major is. The only kind of role I can see a social science degree being useful in is in research. Of course gaining a position on a research team will also prove difficult without Finnish language skills. I'm developing a research proposal at the moment for my own university which I hope to have jointly supervised by a Finnish university. Of course this won't actually be a job but I may get some scholarship or other funding to pay my way during the research period.

[Tiwaz]

Social sciences...
Isn't that something that has something to do with society and how it works?

I wonder how much need there is for social scientist who cannot communicate in preferred language of society they are dealing with...

Basically, but it depends what your major is. The only kind of role I can see a social science degree being useful in is in research. Of course gaining a position on a research team will also prove difficult without Finnish language skills. I'm developing a research proposal at the moment for my own university which I hope to have jointly supervised by a Finnish university. Of course this won't actually be a job but I may get some scholarship or other funding to pay my way during the research period.

And what would you research which would not require skill at Finnish? Your research material has to be in English...

What social science raw material (which would be useful for studying) is in English? I'm sure there are actual studies which have been translated, but studying studies sounds very much like trying to create empty work without purpose beyond paying researchers bills.

[Pursuivant]

But then they can come up with this "Finns are racists because they know things about their country better"

[The_Mikko]

Thanks guys for your inputs. Looking forward to having more comments and experiences.

[inkku]

(After these well informed answers... )

The_ Mikko why don't you ask what are the work prospects for a Finnish social science graduate in Finland (or actually anywhere).

Answer: Very bad. In general, the job market is niche.

Getting a job in a social sciences graduate, it also depends on your focus, what you have studied more specifically, eg politics, IR, development requires less Finnish.. mostly NGOs, some consulting companies, for Finns i guess public sector is a major employer (where you need Finnish).

It is an interesting area, but if you want better job prospects, study medicine, accounting, law, engineering etc. Also language would matter less then.

[Cloudberry]

What social science raw material (which would be useful for studying) is in English? I'm sure there are actual studies which have been translated, but studying studies sounds very much like trying to create empty work without purpose beyond paying researchers bills.

There are many Finnish statistics and reports published in English. My research focuses on gender equality and work-life balance issues. Many non-Finns have already accessed similar data for their research projects.

[Tiwaz]

What social science raw material (which would be useful for studying) is in English? I'm sure there are actual studies which have been translated, but studying studies sounds very much like trying to create empty work without purpose beyond paying researchers bills.

There are many Finnish statistics and reports published in English. My research focuses on gender equality and work-life balance issues. Many non-Finns have already accessed similar data for their research projects.

Are you able to access Finnish statistics and reports to determine what is NOT translated? There is crapload of raw data out there.

When you take stuff which is translated, you are essentially only taking information which someone else has deemed useful in English and translated. Compared to Finnish reading and speaking research staff you are very limited, and thus scope your study is very limited, because those who can access data in it's original language can themselves determine what information is useful for their study.

[blaugrau]

Perhaps I'll chime into this discussion as well.. it's a bit long, sorry about that.

I'm working in a social sciences research position here in Finland and in my view both Tiwaz and Cloudberry have a point, even though I'm actually agreeing more with Tiwaz on this matter. The issue is really what kind of project you're working on. My first project was an international comparative study that was based on a large *international* dataset (thus, it was a secondary analysis) and our research question related to four different countries, including Finland. The language-issue wasn't really a problem then, as the data was in English and academic research literature (journal papers) dominantly written in English. The other thing was that the project had more a focus on breadth than on depth, and was a intended to be of a smaller scope (the original idea was for it to be a 6-months project, it took a lot longer than that but that had other reasons).

For my current project however, which is much more in-depth and with a longer time-frame (several years), my now already better developed Finnish skills are invaluable. I couldn't do this project, which is also comparative but with only two countries, without Finnish skills. It involves accessing historical data, and in order to make proper use and sense of this data I need a thorough understanding of the concepts that relate to it and the historical context -- certain institutions and their historical changes. I've had to read several Finnish books so far in order to understand this data material and to understand what other material will be useful/necessary for my purposes. In addition, when your project has a strong Finnish focus, it will not be enough to only regard international academic research literature, but you have to take into account the more "local" academic discussions that are written in Finnish for the Finnish (academic) audience.

If you intend to collect your own data, I don't see much hope without Finnish. It's not only that you'll be very dependent on someone else translating your survey (so that you can't decide whether the meaning was conveyed in Finnish the way you intended) and helping you with focus groups/pre-tests, but also in order to meaningfully operationalize the research questions I think you'll have to have a good idea of the Finnish context of the problem, which I think will succeed only superficially when you can't access Finnish-language sources. (In addition, my experience is that many academics do not speak English very fluently (of course some do speak decent English, but my feeling is that the majority doesn't speak it that well). Often they can nevertheless produce very good written English but to discuss matters orally sometimes pushes their limits, at least that's my impression).

So in terms of the project, it depends a bit on your research problem how necessary Finnish skills will be, but I would personally think that it's very risky and academically somewhat questionable to work on a Finland-related topic with zero Finnish skills. It is however true that there is relatively much English-language literature on Finnish affairs and the statistics Finland material is most of the time also published in English. But in order to make *proper* use of it I think you really need to know the *context* of this data well, and that's bound to remain superficial if you only rely on English-language sources. If you have supervisors/collaborators who are helpful and willing to clarify some background info with you, it might work out, only you'll be often quite dependent on their interpretation of things, which is also not ideal. If the project is a completely "international" one, where the focus is less in-depth on Finland, it might all work out quite well in English though.

Although my Finnish is now quite good or good enough that I can access relevant Finnish sources without problems, I could not do this project if I had to *write* in Finnish (on an academic level). This is why I think that should I for one reason or another lose my job at the university, it would be extremely difficult to get a foothold in a Finnish non-university research department. I tend to believe that since non-academic research institute mainly publish for the Finnish audience, fluent academic English would by no means be enough, even if they also produce English language reports. And knowing Finnish to the level of academic written Finnish is a completely different kettle of fish than being able to read it and speak it well in everyday life. Even if my reading of academic Finnish is relativley fluent, it would probably take me a decade if not more to produce academic-standard Finnish texts. This, in my opinion, definitely restricts the employment possibilities within my field in Finland to the academic social sciences. (that's my hunch/interpretation, I haven't really tried to apply to such places or asked about their language requirements).

So to get perhaps back to the original poster's question -- if you don't intend to do research at a university, I do not see much hope at all to get a job in Finland in your field without Finnish skills -- and even if you speak Finnish, I think the chances are a lot slimmer outside the university due to the potentially much increased pressure to produce academic-standard Finnish reports.

[Pursuivant]

Well theres a´already "stupid foreigners" in the academia making idiotic surveys, so you only have to prove Finns racist and xenophobic to the communist professors and thats not a problem at all. if you want a real job then someone read your asinine drivels will rather masturbate with a cheesegrater than hire you.