Discrimination to employment

[rinso]

as they have trouble (like 18 months) trying to find someone here within Finland.

18 months should be an indication that they either:
a - don't give priority to that job
b - have rather strict demands for it
c - other limiting factors (like unions)
So it should come to no surprise that they are not interested in applications outside the normal procedure.

[FraserinFinland]

One of the worst things I feel about this whole issue and to a certain extent alot of the responses is denial.
It doesn't happen or it is my fault.
Every excuse under the sun, from foriegners who could kill you at a hospital, my CV, unions, lost in translation. Me simply asking... Hell they aren't going call Eniro and ask for me are they?
Why the feck would I express this outrage anyway? I want to bait punters in Finland and take like Marsellus Wallace over a barrel?

It sort of goes along with you rolling into a shop in Finland doesn't it. They look at you as though you have paskantaa postilaatikkoon

[filipdragos]

My friend discrimination and racism are everywhere. In any other country you go as an immigrant this is the reality. Now the difference is that some show it and some don`t. I am an immigrant too and have been here for just three months, searching for a job and facing the reality and all kind of problems, but in this three months I have learned to "play the game". That is if you want to stay here, if not, you are free to go. There is a big world out there, nobody is keeping you imprisoned here. You can`t change peoples mentality. I respect the Finnish people because they have the courage to show where you are wanted and where not. Looking at their behavior you know what you have to do. In other countries they don`t show that you are not wanted but treat you bad in other ways, hidden ways for you not to shout "discrimination". At least here I knew from the beginning what is my position in the Finnish society. I had 2 opportunities: to accept it and fight trying to integrate, or go back home or in other country. It is as simple as that. At least that is how I see it. What you are doing in this topic or what you are trying to prove will take you nowhere...My advice as a friend, as an immigrant, is forgive and forget. Don`t stand still and look back, go forward, a step at a time, don`t hurry, be patient and use diplomacy.

[bm50]

My friend discrimination and racism are everywhere. In any other country you go as an immigrant this is the reality. Now the difference is that some show it and some don`t. I am an immigrant too and have been here for just three months, searching for a job and facing the reality and all kind of problems, but in this three months I have learned to "play the game". That is if you want to stay here, if not, you are free to go. There is a big world out there, nobody is keeping you imprisoned here. You can`t change peoples mentality. I respect the Finnish people because they have the courage to show where you are wanted and where not. Looking at their behavior you know what you have to do. In other countries they don`t show that you are not wanted but treat you bad in other ways, hidden ways for you not to shout "discrimination". At least here I knew from the beginning what is my position in the Finnish society. I had 2 opportunities: to accept it and fight trying to integrate, or go back home or in other country. It is as simple as that. At least that is how I see it. What you are doing in this topic or what you are trying to prove will take you nowhere...My advice as a friend, as an immigrant, is forgive and forget. Don`t stand still and look back, go forward, a step at a time, don`t hurry, be patient and use diplomacy.

Not in the UK! Does not matter about race there if you want to work you can work, there people from all over the world are working in all kind of jobs, nurses, police, shops, local government etc, if employers discriminate in the UK they will find themselves in court.But here very different, my wife is from Indonesia and has just finished 6 months work practice in a päiväkoti she has applied for many jobs without success all they offer her is more work practice ( slave labour ) without pay and they really take advantage of her. She asked a local päiväkoti in person ( she speaks good finnish ) for work and the 2 staff there just ignored her she asked them 3 times then they said that they don't take foreigners there! Of course my wife was angry so went to the managers office and the woman there would not even look at my wife she turned her back and pretended to be working on her computer!

[Pursuivant]

Well theres a big other difference also - UK has jobs. Or when did you last (ever?) see a "help wanted" advert in a window here? I think I saw a couple in 1987 and then in 2001 before the IT bubble burst...

[filipdragos]

Like I said nobody is forced to stay here. If things are so perfect in the UK go there. This is what you don`t understand. Complaining in this forum about discrimination leads you to nothing. Go to the Embassy, to the Government, to the Human Rights and fight with the system and the mentality of people here. But I am telling you from the start that it is a lost battle. I, myself, will try for a few months to find a job here and if nothing happens, I will go back home. That means that I can`t integrate here. It`s no use fighting the windmills. But this is just my opinion. I just tried to give an advice from my point of view, because I too encountered those problems, but decided to ignore them.

[FraserinFinland]

Well I at least can see the funny side of this as does Dave Chappelle

[C.P.]

I'm a native Finnish, altough I have a passport from a different country. Currently I live in Germany.

I have seen all sides from Finnish life, at first being a worker, then a director and finally a business owner. I always have had an open mind, but I can tell its true when you think the companies have problems hiring foreign people. Thats is absolutely true and I'm ashamed of that. Problem is that Finland has always been far-away-country, the Finns there happily (and sometimes not so happily) between Sweden and Russia. Until Nokia Corporation got into international business Finns were quite separated from Europe. Finns were always thinking what are those people in foreign countries thinking of us? It wasn't usual to have too many foreigners and if you were a black guy - people would stare like crazy (I'm white, but I know...). Everything started to happen quite fast in the 80's/90's and in a cultural way Finland is slightly behind of Central Europe (feels bad to say, but its true). But, don't get me wrong - Finland is in my heart and I love the country and the people. You will certainly find companies and people who are open minded - who will see the cultural richness is the benefit for the company. I guess most of the people who act racist way are just scared of the outside world. If you meet such people, please don't consider them to be the majority. Also, its good to remember there are Finns who had bad experiences with some foreigners, usually having had problems with Somalians, Gipsies (I had those problems as well) etc. This easily creates suspicion when they meet people from other countries or cultures.

There are also many Finns who are scared to talk English, even if its good - we were taught in schools to follow exactly the correct structure to create perfect sentences in English - that got more weight than actually talking. So basically some people are afraid to communicate with foreign people, and most of the Finns are anyway slightly shy. Give them few beers and you see a guy who will talk with you in any language

I think good way to avoid rejection is to avoid small places - in bigger cities there are more opportunities and people are more open minded. Sometimes even Finns experience "racism", if you are from Helsinki and visiting some rural village - they have a certain image of you and may even behave quite aggressively. Basically, Finland is bit more rough country - less culture, sometimes more aggression - but good point is, if you get friends they usually are long term good friends. Through the friends its often easier to get some jobs - so I would recommend being active, having some hobbies etc. and seeing people. If your own personality is open, you don't let these bad people get you down - you will eventually find a job. But, you should speak at least one of the languages; Finnish, English or Swedish. Sometimes even German or French could do, but in general English should be enough for basic jobs - or specialist jobs. Most big companies have one official language, and that usually is English - meaning you won't need to speak Finnish. I have had great problems learning German, so I can understand how difficult is to learn Finnish - which is even more difficult!

Wish you all luck!

CP

[finlandforumuser]

For instance, I am in Finland 10+ years, don't speak Finnish. Work on senior position, one of best paid worker. Area: ITC.

[Tiwaz]

But, you should speak at least one of the languages; Finnish, English or Swedish. Sometimes even German or French could do, but in general English should be enough for basic jobs - or specialist jobs. Most big companies have one official language, and that usually is English - meaning you won't need to speak Finnish. I have had great problems learning German, so I can understand how difficult is to learn Finnish - which is even more difficult!

You are wrong on several points.

First, basic job = Finnish by and large mandatory. It is far less likely that you get basic job without Finnish than getting specialist job without Finnish.

And even in those fields, you need to have certain specific field where English can replace Finnish. PR and marketing has little use for someone who has no grasp of language preferred by clients. IT is different case, there English only approach is possible. But only if you are either...

A) Some sort of super guru
B) Hired to big company.

First one is self explanatory, if you have enough merits employers make exceptions. Second is the big iffy one...

Big companies may have English as office language, but such employers are VERY few and far between. And each and every one of their open jobs will have hundreds of applicants. Being foreigner will most likely not net you special points in such cases so you are on same line as dozens of bright eyed Finns. Meaning odds for any single foreigner to land that cushy job is going to be slim.

Huge majority of jobs will be found in small to mid range businesses, and those are predominately Finnish speaking.

Thus, unless you like to believe that playing lottery is valid method of financing your life every immigrant has better put their ass down to school bench and start learning Finnish ASAP. (Why lottery? Because someone always eventually wins in lottery, but odds of it being YOU are very slim. Same with landing a nice cushy "no Finnish needed" job in Finland.)

[nsdh]

There are some kind of people feel comfortable with fellow country men than others.

Some managers in 40s dont want complicate hiring foreigner.

[Upphew]

There are some kind of people feel comfortable with fellow country men than others.

Some managers in 40s dont want complicate hiring foreigner.

Foreigner in workplace is not necessarily complication, someone who cannot understand orders, is complication. I'm waiting for the first serious accident in construction business, as there still is many workers who might have hard time to read and understand their rights and responsibilities. And if and when it is foreman's responsibility to make those things clear...

[finlandforumuser]

And even in those fields, you need to have certain specific field where English can replace Finnish. PR and marketing has little use for someone who has no grasp of language preferred by clients. IT is different case, there English only approach is possible. But only if you are either...

A) Some sort of super guru
B) Hired to big company.

Not always true. Most of companies in Helsinki area speak English and employ a lots of non-Finnish speaking workers.

[Mook]

IT is different case, there English only approach is possible. But only if you are either...

A) Some sort of super guru
B) Hired to big company.

I was going to say "bollox - have you tried to hire a half-decent software engineer with anything less that 4k/month, recently?", but then I realised that they're the super-gurus.

Certainly, in Helsinki, the market for code-monkey's is screwed. They're all either "not doing it for the money" or are crap and/or greedy. Nokia, with their "we give you lots of training so we don't have to pay you much" doesn't help either.

[Tiwaz]

Not always true. Most of companies in Helsinki area speak English and employ a lots of non-Finnish speaking workers.

Total, utter and absolute !"#¤%.

Most companies in Helsinki area have staff who speak English if customer speaks it. It is called customer service.

Tiny minority are companies where they actually speak English inside the house.

Clearly you have no grasp of what real economical situation is, so I would advice you to remain quiet.
You have your tiny little niche perhaps where you can succeed without Finnish, and now imagine that it is true elsewhere. And that is totally, absolutely false.

I on the other hand have relatives from two family branches who live in HKI area. And there is zero indication that most or even notable portion of jobs there would be ones where you could work without Finnish skills.

Ok, if you score a job in McDonald's as dishwasher, that might be it. But it is job anyone can do so competition is fierce.