Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

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FinnGuyHelsinki
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by FinnGuyHelsinki » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:02 am

Karhunkoski wrote:As far as I understand if you're made redundant in Finland there is no "payoff" or "golden handshake", unlike some countries, e.g. England. Perhaps someone could clarify this for sure?
That's not required by law, but some companies offer some kind of incentive for volunteer resignation, which reduces the amount of people that are laid off (not talking about any upper management, just the usual work force, in this case senior salaried employees).



Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

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Rick1
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by Rick1 » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:06 am

Karhunkoski wrote:I noticed two commnets, which raises a question, they were:

"wait for the payoff" and "golden handshake".


As far as I understand if you're made redundant in Finland there is no "payoff" or "golden handshake", unlike some countries, e.g. England. Perhaps someone could clarify this for sure?
Depends on two things:

1) How long you have worked for your employer but is limited to mostly a couple of months. I really do not know sometimes why they call this a social state as can be seen from those unions as Pursuivant mentioned who are more busy with useless things like daddyleave extension etc. then making sure that you can only keep it when you have secure job.

2) What is in your contract, the 'big' boys normally have at least 6 months fee and ofcourse some other stuff to keep them comfortable waiting for another job offer.


CatNip
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by CatNip » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:35 am

By law there is no "golden handshakes" in Finland. Of course employer can still do that if they so wish.
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CatNip
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by CatNip » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:43 am

CatNip wrote:Hi,
Para 62 says:
Employer, who has deliberately or negligently failed to observe the provisions of sections 45―51 in respect of an employee, whose contract has been terminated or reduced to a part-time contract or who has been laid off shall be liable to pay to the employee, whose contract was terminated or reduced to a part-time contract or who was laid off a maximum indemnification amount of 30 000 euros.
Am I correct in my understanding that if the employer blatantly disregards their obligations the maximum compensation the employee can receive is 30 000 euros? That this is the same for all employees regardless of salary? For higher paid staff this is not a lot of compensation, and is not in itself much deterrent to the employer.

In addition, Para 67 says:
The employer or his representative, who intentionally or negligently fails to observe or violates the provisions of sections 17, 20 or 22, 28(1) or (2), sections 30, 31, 34, 36, 41, 43 or 55, 56(1) or section 65 with the exception of the provisions in section 55 or 56 on the employer’s payment liability shall be imposed a fine for violation of the co-operation obligation.
This doesn't help the employee other than its possible deterrent value. How large can the fine be? Unless it is large it seems to me that an employer can ignore their obligations at very little risk, since the maximum employee compensation is so low.

It's not so straight forward. If employer has financial or production related basis for working hour reductions or layoffs and is following the negotiation practices defined in the law, then there will not be this kind of compensation. This only applies in cases, when the employer is terminating the contract without basis or is not following the negotiation practices.
The shop steward or employee representative needs to be aware of any plans of headcount reductions. The shop steward or employee representative also should have the financial data available basis on what the reductions are planned.
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Karhunkoski
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by Karhunkoski » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:20 am

CatNip wrote:By law there is no "golden handshakes" in Finland.
Thank you. So unless the OP had some specially-negotiated contract, he shouldn't be expecting a pay-off. That was the point I was trying to make.
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


DMC
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by DMC » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:48 am

CatNip wrote:It's not so straight forward. If employer has financial or production related basis for working hour reductions or layoffs and is following the negotiation practices defined in the law, then there will not be this kind of compensation. This only applies in cases, when the employer is terminating the contract without basis or is not following the negotiation practices.
Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear. I wasn't trying to suggest that the OP was in this situation, I was heading off on a tangent and asking more general questions about this part of the law. I am still interested in the answers, although they won't help the OP.


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daryl
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by daryl » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:38 pm

leugs wrote:Hello,

My employer just started cooperation negociation, because "demand at work has decreased" (the truth underneath is that they want to transfer work to low-cost countries).

They want to change our full-time permanent contracts to "0-160h"

Basically what they offer to us:
option 1: they unilaterally change our contract to part-time. We will be eligible for adjusted earnings-related (or basic) allowance.
option 2: we resign, and we will have to wait 3 months before we get allowance.

They say "we won't give any contract termination or lay-off".

So my questions...
Is it legal in Finland to force employees to change their full-time permanent to hourly based?
Anyone had a similar experience? Any advice?

Thanks!
These matters can be quite complicated in practice, and in addition to the redundancy procedure laws outlined by other posters here, there may also be special rules governing the industry in which your employer operates or the type of work that you do. Evidently your work is something that can be outsourced to a foreign supplier, which suggests that you aren't involved in contact services like teaching, cleaning, catering or health care.

Shop stewards and other employee representatives come in all shapes and sizes, and some are better than others. A bad shop steward or elected representative can be a serious handicap in cases of downsizing, as this person is consulted and may respond officially on your behalf, but will not necessarily keep you in the loop or represent your best interests. You didn't say which trade union you belong to.

I should add that your employer is bound by your contract of employment, which can only be ended by proper termination with notice. Shortage of work is grounds for such termination, but the correct procedure must be applied and you then enjoy a preferential right to be re-engaged if the employer needs new staff within 9 months of the end of the employment. You should not resign unless this is part of a formally agreed compensation package.

Drop me a line privately and let me know what work you do and for which employer, and which union you belong to. I have a bit of experience interceding with trade unions on behalf of foreign employees who cannot communicate with the union through the shop steward or other regular channels.
Wo ai Zhong-guo ren


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Pursuivant
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:40 pm

Karhunkoski wrote: As far as I understand if you're made redundant in Finland there is no "payoff" or "golden handshake", unlike some countries, e.g. England. Perhaps someone could clarify this for sure?
This is Finland, you get a "golden shower"...
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


CarmenfromTexas
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Re: Employer forces to change permanent full-time to part-time.

Post by CarmenfromTexas » Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:54 pm

Pursuivant wrote: This is Finland, you get a "golden shower"...
That sounds like how I imagine life as corporate cannon fodder. :shock: :lol:
Eat the chicken and spit out the bones

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