WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

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Finsoninlaw
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WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Finsoninlaw » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:54 pm

The credit crunch has challenged us to think carefully about the role of the state in managing a capitalist economy and in building and preserving economic strength. The conclusions we draw will have far-reaching implications for the FINNISH economy.
As we all live in a time were most people are loosing their jobs , companies are shutting down their operations , new graduates are stucked in their homes without jobs forth coming , immigrants crying out for jobs and blaming it on all sorts of things inthe society , more people living more and more on Kela pay slips .

Certainly, we have experienced the first major financial crisis of the global age in Finland, but my question is should we all sit down and watch ? where are the great Economist , this time not just forcasting the job recovery but making it happen .Should our companies start looking at expansion into the emerging markets of the world by still making use of finnish citizens and also immigrants residing here for jobs in those markets they are expanding into considering their citizenship of that country ? Should we take to mass Agriculture that can easily keep people on track atleast ?

what way forward for more job creation that will not deplete any person in need of a job in Finland ?



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Rosamunda
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Rosamunda » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:11 pm

I think there will be plenty of jobs opening up over the next five-ten years as maybe 30% of civil servants retire. And there are still job opportunities in the service sector (public and private) including health, education etc. Someone has to look after all those old people :D

Maybe people in high places are looking at those things. Finding alternative uses for forestry products is one possibility. Producing bio-fuels is another sector that Finland is strong in. Maybe FInland will export electric cars? Cheap electricity (when Oikiluoto is up and running) and cheap land will attract other companies like Google and Tieto who are setting up massive server-centres.

Finland is also reviewing its higher education system with a view to focusing its universities in specialist areas. And also investigating ways of exporting education (eg teacher training).

It takes a long time to turn around an economy but at a guess I would say it is easier for a small economy with an educated workforce to re-focus, than for a huge economy like the USA.

MC Deli
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by MC Deli » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:56 am

penelope wrote: Cheap electricity (when Oikiluoto is up and running)
Great positive message overall except the electricity. If you have read about the nuclear cost spiral and taken a casual look around at the state of electricity across europe, you would observe that there is not going to be any cheap electricity anywhere, ever, again.

irnbru
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by irnbru » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:27 am

MC Deli wrote:there is not going to be any cheap electricity anywhere, ever, again.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... s-science/

Finsoninlaw
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Finsoninlaw » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:34 am

penelope wrote:I think there will be plenty of jobs opening up over the next five-ten years as maybe 30% of civil servants retire. And there are still job opportunities in the service sector (public and private) including health, education etc. Someone has to look after all those old people :D

Maybe people in high places are looking at those things. Finding alternative uses for forestry products is one possibility. Producing bio-fuels is another sector that Finland is strong in. Maybe FInland will export electric cars? Cheap electricity (when Oikiluoto is up and running) and cheap land will attract other companies like Google and Tieto who are setting up massive server-centres.

Finland is also reviewing its higher education system with a view to focusing its universities in specialist areas. And also investigating ways of exporting education (eg teacher training).

It takes a long time to turn around an economy but at a guess I would say it is easier for a small economy with an educated workforce to re-focus, than for a huge economy like the USA.
Positive response as it may sound , but still sounds like a forcast NEXT FIVE TO TEN YEARS of plenty jobs to come , i assume there will be lots of divorce cases between foreign men and women married finnish citizens due to the inability to cope financially as a result of job not forth coming soon , Kela also will be over loaded with unemployment benefits and may be some other vulnerable areas that may affect the society which we may not be seeing so soon .

Why we do not look at the so many snows flooding our streets , roads and neighbourhood and employ more hands to clean up this things ? Agricultural products are something that can keep any economy going for both short term and long term , we can start growing more fruits , plants , Animals and diary products since the resources needed to do this things are available , for instance Land , Manpower and possibly the seedlings ? As Biofuels and Electricity cars will take a huge number of years to develop .

Why dont we think that as a small economy with educated workforce like Finland , it should take the first step to turn around its economy and stand as a role model for other biger and smaller econmies to follow in terms of keeping up the job market ?

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Pursuivant
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:24 pm

Ah, that would work somewhere like Estonia where you don't have a welfare society - there you need to do work and the government doesn't make it impossible.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

EP
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by EP » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:16 pm

Agricultural products are something that can keep any economy going for both short term and long term , we can start growing more fruits , plants
Well, still 50 years ago Finland was very much an agricultural country. And a poor one. You don´t grow fruits and vegetables here without very expensive heating systems. Look out of the window. What kind of crops you get from there?

Rosamunda
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Rosamunda » Sat Feb 06, 2010 6:26 pm

MC Deli wrote:
penelope wrote: Cheap electricity (when Oikiluoto is up and running)
Great positive message overall except the electricity. If you have read about the nuclear cost spiral and taken a casual look around at the state of electricity across europe, you would observe that there is not going to be any cheap electricity anywhere, ever, again.
Maybe. I guess cheap was not what I meant. "Reliable" might be more appropriate since Oikiluoto will supply electricity reliably unlike wind, solar, water etc which fluctuate with the weather/climate. I vaguely remember that electricity was cited as one of the reasons why Google and Tieto chose Finland for their server-centres.
finsoninlaw wrote:Why we do not look at the so many snows flooding our streets , roads and neighbourhood and employ more hands to clean up this things ? Agricultural products are something that can keep any economy going for both short term and long term , we can start growing more fruits , plants , Animals and diary products since the resources needed to do this things are available , for instance Land , Manpower and possibly the seedlings ? As Biofuels and Electricity cars will take a huge number of years to develop .
As for electric cars and bio-fuels, Finland is already producing both. Neste's bio-fuel refinery in Porvoo has been operational for over a year and although it is currently using palm oil, it can refine almost any raw material available in large and cheap enough supply. Neste has also sold their refinery expertise to (IIRC) Singapore where it is also building a refinery. Electric cars are already being produced in Finland and energy storage technology (ie batteries) seems to be advancing rapidly. There is nothing "futuristic" about either of those industries. But, it could be that neither will provide massive employment to the unskilled and/or uneducated in the workforce.

Pursuivant is right about agriculture. It is neither an economically or environmentally sound investment up here. At best it can provide seasonal work. But Finns are not prepared to break their backs working for such low salaries so typically seasonal labour is brought in from Thailand etc. That might change with some of the new rules (employers now have to pay the return flights for imported labourers). But most food production is not labour intensive up here. Even on dairy farms, herd sizes are getting bigger and the farmers are starting to automate milking. Yes, it would be nice if there were more people working the land producing organic food but that kind of paradigm shift will only happen if consumers change their shopping habits. Most farmers have a winter job to compliment their income (like forestry work or driving HGVs). Agriculture will not create jobs. Food technology might, but I know nothing about that industry apart from the fact that Finland seems to be investing in it currently.

finsoninlaw you might want to look through some of the projects on here: www.sitra.fi

Finsoninlaw
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Finsoninlaw » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:15 am

"Pursuivant"]Ah, that would work somewhere like Estonia where you don't have a welfare society - there you need to do work and the government doesn't make it impossible
How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?


Penelope , thanks for your response and the useful website you have provided . Although , we all as citizens , immigrant , investors or living here in Finland must help in salvaging this problem of jobs and other issues that will face Finland as a nation , and provide meaningful solutions . Meanwhile do you have idea on where they source for the palm oil in running the cars ?

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Pursuivant
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by Pursuivant » Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:19 am

In the abundant palm groves littering the countryside.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."

AldenG
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by AldenG » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:02 pm

And I thought it was the abundant hamburger grills littering the town- and cityscapes.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

AldenG
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by AldenG » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:23 pm

penelope wrote: It takes a long time to turn around an economy but at a guess I would say it is easier for a small economy with an educated workforce to re-focus, than for a huge economy like the USA.
You can say that again.

Our politicians like to talk about the genius of free markets, but those seem to be more like evolution: a chaotic and inefficient approach to creating new solutions, at best capable only of choosing among existing solutions -- but even then, only in a short-sighted manner that pays no heed whatsoever to deferred or externalized costs.

Our long reliance on the system of massive factories, often (though not always) using antiquated or at least outdated technologies, has dumbed down both worker and management until they appear to have killed each other in a death embrace. I have a very hard time seeing how huge groups of people over the age of, say, forty, are ever going to get new-energy or new-technology jobs that can bring back the kind of prosperity that peaked for Americans some time around the 1970's or maybe 1980's.

And while I do not believe government is inherently incompetent, it does appear that American government has reached a point of terminal fecklessness. I'm not sure why that is, though size, arrogance, and complacency are a part of the picture. I am tired to death of hearing politicians and bureaucrats make these empty (and false) boasts about how we have the world's best this and the world's best that and the world's safest such-and-such. Whether it's health care, the food supply, the water supply, or any of that, in the first place how the hell would they even know?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

nsdh
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Re: WILL JOBS EVER COME BACK IN FINLAND ?

Post by nsdh » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:47 pm

Come back to simple life, the resources of the world is limited will end soon if it follows lousy culture. We ended up with everything unnatural and disaster for future generation . Greed is cause of this problem.


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