Pharmacy in Finland

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interleukin
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by interleukin » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:48 pm

Then you are most likely, like me, a foreigner with a specific education that makes him/her attractive to employers despite the lack of language. Or maybe you are just lucky. That is fine, that is great. But not very common.


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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

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Pursuivant
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:54 pm

finlandforumuser wrote: I HATE RACISM.
I hate racism, hypocricy, and foreigners :lol:
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:13 pm

interleukin wrote:a foreigner with a specific education
define "specific", each area is the specific. Indeed, it is matter of maturity of the specialist and the demand. You may search "skilled short list", e.g. in Australia. The list is quite big. Basically, this list is valid here as well.


Rip
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Rip » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:51 pm

finlandforumuser wrote: define "specific", each area is the specific.
Typically knowledge on some area where Finland happens to have internationally noteworthy industry.
The list is quite big. Basically, this list is valid here as well.
Some items on the list sure, with others knowledge of Finnish is either legal requirement (majority of the health care related ones for starters), yet others not a legal but a practical requirement (TV journalist not being fluent in Finnish will find it tough here - and in most case teacher and probably an accountant as well), and finally the list has job descriptions for which I doubt there is much demand in this country (no matter what your language proficiency is).


finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:38 pm

Rip wrote:TV journalist not being fluent in Finnish will find it tough here ...
Finnish TV journalist, indeed needs fluent in Finnish, not sure it is attractive place to work at least the TV is dumn boring :) In the same time, it is possible to find job for journalist in PR or online editions targeted for foreign content. For big companies such content is the key niche.


interleukin
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by interleukin » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:52 pm

In the same time, it is possible to find job for journalist in PR or online editions targeted for foreign content. For big companies such content is the key niche.
You may be selling a product to foreigners, but the people working with you will still be Finns. Things are done the Finnish way, not your foreign way. The branch contacts and subcontractors are Finnish. They will prefer to work with other Finns and not have to start speaking English in every meeting (yes, speaking English every day is very different from producing written materials that get proofread ten times before release). Argue all you want, but there is no reason to hire the foreigner and not a Finnish with good language skills (=any Finn).
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finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:36 pm

interleukin wrote:Argue all you want, but there is no reason to hire the foreigner and not a Finnish with good language skills (=any Finn).
I don't argue, just I know there are a lots of people working here many years without words in Finnish. Perhaps, Finns could want to hire locals only, but they can't. There is not enough skilled Finns around, so they have to hire foreigners.


Tiwaz
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Tiwaz » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:13 pm

finlandforumuser wrote: I don't argue, just I know there are a lots of people working here many years without words in Finnish. Perhaps, Finns could want to hire locals only, but they can't. There is not enough skilled Finns around, so they have to hire foreigners.
And if they find skilled Finn, they hire him and not foreigner. That is why foreigners have great deal higher unemployment rates.

Finding job in Finland without Finnish is like lottery. Someone wins always, but designing your life around faith that YOU are that winner is idiotic.

In 10 years you have worked in Finland, you should have learned Finnish. What if tomorrow YT-axe cuts your way and you are out of job? Are you absolutely certain you could find another job where they ignore your handicap on languages?


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Pursuivant
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Pursuivant » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:18 pm

It always depends on your place in the foodchain - and also which sharks you know.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:49 pm

Tiwaz wrote: In 10 years you have worked in Finland, you should have learned Finnish. What if tomorrow YT-axe cuts your way and you are out of job? Are you absolutely certain you could find another job where they ignore your handicap on languages?
Great question, it also comes to my head. Well, in case of sudden loss of job I would like first to receive deserved compensation from ytk as well as state unemployment funds. I was paying enough taxes, so I think certain sponsorship form state is reasonable. At that idle time, besides of searching job, I could try to full feel my old dream to build consulting company. I have plenty of ideas, just I have no time and passion. Of course, during that time I would go on language courses and study language for many years, expecting that Finnish state will pay me allowance and provide other support. Having the spare time could be also used for self study to learn new technologies. Finally, if I will not get the job and spend my saving I can always return to Russia. There is enough job for programmers so far and with great western experience I could find some good job there.


Tiwaz
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Tiwaz » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:31 pm

finlandforumuser wrote: Great question, it also comes to my head. Well, in case of sudden loss of job I would like first to receive deserved compensation from ytk as well as state unemployment funds. I was paying enough taxes, so I think certain sponsorship form state is reasonable. At that idle time, besides of searching job, I could try to full feel my old dream to build consulting company. I have plenty of ideas, just I have no time and passion. Of course, during that time I would go on language courses and study language for many years, expecting that Finnish state will pay me allowance and provide other support. Having the spare time could be also used for self study to learn new technologies. Finally, if I will not get the job and spend my saving I can always return to Russia. There is enough job for programmers so far and with great western experience I could find some good job there.
You get compensation which is not even nearly same as your salary. Your level of living has to be cut radically.
And if you start your own consulting company, where are you going to get customers who are going to be so nice that they speak English to you because you cannot communicate in their preferred language?
Of course you could aim for foreigners, but then you are in wrong country to pull it off.

As for language courses. Leeching off the state allowances would again mean radical drop in quality of life. Specialists in IT-field always make much more cash than leeching provides. Of course it requires actual work, but I doubt you want to switch to living student life with peanuts they pay.
Fluent Finnish takes much more than couple years to achieve unless you are some sort of linguistic genius. Which most people are not.

So your only realistic alternative would be moving back to Russia. And this because you have wasted your years in Finland by not learning the language.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Pursuivant » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:15 am

Ah, starting business = rich capitalist = benefits goodbye :wink:
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:07 pm

Tiwaz wrote: And this because you have wasted your years in Finland by not learning the language.
I would sooner spend time on improving my skills.

The true is: there are plenty unemployed Finnish natives and opposite a lots of people without any word in Finnish have great work, the difference is in their skills.

Successful companies prefer to hire good foreigners rather local even with identical skills. The reason is very simple, international workers typically more enthusiastic, more willing to learn and just hungrier in all aspects.


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Pursuivant
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by Pursuivant » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:26 pm

finlandforumuser wrote:The reason is very simple, international workers typically more enthusiastic, more willing to learn and just hungrier in all aspects.
Foreigners are unawares, don't follow union contracts, don't know their rights, easily screwed, work longer hours for smaller wages, if non-EU don't ask for a payrise when they need to renew their permit. EU people are no-can-speak and if they get screwed the pro-bono lawyers are there only for refugees, so if you've been a dildo and pissed off the gf and got no friends, who is going to fill in for you on palkkaturva?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


finlandforumuser
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Re: Pharmacy in Finland

Post by finlandforumuser » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:33 pm

Pursuivant wrote:
finlandforumuser wrote:The reason is very simple, international workers typically more enthusiastic, more willing to learn and just hungrier in all aspects.
Foreigners are unawares, don't follow union contracts, don't know their rights, easily screwed, work longer hours for smaller wages, if non-EU don't ask for a payrise when they need to renew their permit.
Indeed, it is very true. Basically, foreigners are willing to work, it is life critical.


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