Jobs in shifts and how they should work

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-XD-
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:30 pm

Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by -XD- » Fri May 02, 2014 11:33 pm

Hey all!
I've been working for a Finnish company for over two years now, and I have a few things that I would like to hear some opinions about.

According to my contract, I should be working at least 10hours every three weeks. Officially though, I am usually working over 20 hours every week. I've had that contract since the beginning, and every time I asked to change the contract the answer that I got was that "'we can't give more of those 30- or 60-hours contracts now because we have too many employees and we're not sure we can fulfill them". However, they keep hiring new people, and offering to them these kinds of contracts. Is it normal to still have this contract after over two years during which I have been working much more hours?

Another one about the shifts. We are usually given shifts (normally based on our wishes) for a few weeks. When there are busier times, like last autumn, we are asked, sometimes even insistedly that "can you come tomorrow to work? I really need someone, you're my last option. At least come for a few hours", which usually means I'm there for about 8 hours anyway. During this spring, and especially this summer there won't be that much work to do, partly because there are summer workers who are unpaid and doing internships, so every time when there is not much work, we get a text in the morning (and that means around 6 in the morning, when the shift is supposed to be at 9) saying that we should stay home. Two of my shifts were cancelled in the last 10 days. Are there any rules about canceling shifts so often? It's really annoying to be waken up so early, just to be told to stay home..

Another thing is that, you never know how long you're going to be at work. So I can either find out in the morning that I'm not going at all (or I'm going extra, on a day off) and even though my shift is officially let's say 6 hours, sometimes I am there for 9-10 hours and can't leave until everything is done.

Every time I ask for more hours, the answer I get is "well your contract says you have minimum 10 hours in three weeks, so you can't complain because you are getting those". And still, instead of giving us more hours, they keep hiring other people.
For the last two years I've been at work on almost every Monday and almost every Saturday. I've even skipped whole courses at school on Mondays, hoping that next year they will be on a different day of the week, because I knew that there is a lot of work on those days and I have always been available to do the hardest part of the job, and to be there even for 10 hours (absolutely no pay for overtime). So how can they just use the 10h contract as an excuse for me working a lot less during the whole summer, only to expect me to be available again whenever they need me again? Is that fair?

I know for some jobs it can be unpredictable, and that's the whole purpose of these jobs in shifts, but they do not care at all that they are completely ruining our schedules. And I feel that they are taking advantage of the fact that I am going to work any time they ask me anyway, so it doesn't benefit them at all to give me a better contract and more working hours.

Sorry for long post, really interested to hear opinions. :)



Jobs in shifts and how they should work

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Eliss
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:14 am

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by Eliss » Sat May 03, 2014 3:39 am

That does not sound right, but to give your more specific answers we should know what field you are working. Which collective agreement (työehtosopimus = TES) is yours? (http://www.infopankki.fi/en/living-in-f ... employment) For example there is Terms of employment in Commercial sector (http://extranet.libris.fi/proweb/PAM_Ka ... n_TES_ENG/ ) that says in pages 6-7:
"Working time
Working hours may not exceed 37,5 hours per week and 9 hours per day. Other arrangements of working time may be agreed at individual workplaces. See the collective agreement for more details.
Work time balancing system
- Over a period of 2-26 weeks
- During the period in question, working hours are balanced out to theweekly working time specified in the employment contract
- Working hours may not exceed 9 hours per day or 48 hours per week (other workplace-specific arrangements mat be made)
- These working hours must be agreed in advance."
And I know in many agreements there is this kind of statement that when you have got your shifts, the employer can not change those anymore without asking (and you can say no).

So you should find what collective agreement applies to you and read it through. Almost every sector has they own collective agreement and often it says in your contract what is collective agreement that your employer follows. Or you can ask that from your employer.
Did you understand my english at all? I hope this help!

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rinso
Posts: 3949
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by rinso » Sat May 03, 2014 7:17 am

It looks like you're on some kind of flex workers contract. These often are designed to give the employer the maximum of freedom.
Although they might violate some details in a collective agreement from time to time, it is not beneficial to fight it. You'll become a trouble maker and you'll find your schedules becoming "correct" and close to the 10 hours in your contract. And if the employer is really p.. off at you, he might design the most inconvenient hours for you.
For instance:
- These working hours must be agreed in advance."
Last minute questions if you can fill in will pass you by, but you'll get a schedule for the hours that are most problematic to fill.
If you disagree to often with that schedule they might terminate your contract.

In my opinion this is a case you cannot win.

cors187
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:59 pm
Location: land of the thunder hammers

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by cors187 » Sat May 03, 2014 9:55 am

http://extranet.libris.fi/proweb/PAM_MaRaVa_TES_ENG/

PAM uses the "generally binding collective agreement " and then tries to add benefits for its members , but essentially the information is usable.

I think this collective agreement would apply to you (your contract should state which collective agreement your under)?
I think its been noted before if your a random in this type of business you need to make an "agreement in the work place"which is what the collective agreement suggests.Useless info for a dirty business!
You need to go head to head with the supervising manager, so either you will be a pest or you will probably settle for the system they are using now because it works.

I think the only thing that you can do is ask for review of your contract each year and correct it.
But i assure you the correction should be 10-111hrs in 3 weeks(which is essentially what your contract suggests except they didnt add the legal maximum).

cors187
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:59 pm
Location: land of the thunder hammers

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by cors187 » Sat May 03, 2014 10:17 am

About the extra hrs not being paid as overtime.
You need to tell them you will not work overtime without the extra pay=pest

About the shift cancellation.
You need to tell them= pest.

About hiring new people and not offering you more hrs
=pest


I think under this collective agreement , the work place agreement takes effect which means you have agreed to the txt system.

Sometimes Finland paperwork or the mindset is worthless.

-XD-
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:30 pm

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by -XD- » Sat May 03, 2014 3:54 pm

Thanks for all answers! :)

In my contract is says that the collective agreement is the Kiinteistopalvelualan tyonteijoita koskeva. Is that one available in English anywhere? I only found the Finnish version.

And update: another shift was canceled today. That makes it three shifts in the last two weeks.

Upphew
Posts: 10748
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Jobs in shifts and how they should work

Post by Upphew » Sat May 03, 2014 9:32 pm

-XD- wrote:In my contract is says that the collective agreement is the Kiinteistopalvelualan tyonteijoita koskeva. Is that one available in English anywhere? I only found the Finnish version.
http://www.pam.fi/en/work/collectiveagr ... fault.aspx
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