So, I've been here for 4 months now and have connected with almost nobody, still fail in all my Finnish speaking endeavors despite being in full time courses, and today went to the doctor, which was the straw that broke the camel's back. All I needed was <simple 5 min procedure> and a new Rx. Was sent away with BP, weight, and height taken and a phone # to call to scheudle <simple 5 min procedure>. First available appt, DECEMBER 20. ...isn't the point of all these high taxes to have access to social services? I feel like I just can't win here. Language is a nightmare to learn, 99% of people are cold and unfriendly, everything is ungodly expensive, and now I can't even be helped by the system I give a huge chunk of my income to?! Also, my weight and BP have gone up significantly since moving here, without much change in lifestyle,; looks like Finland intolerant.
any advice? Will things ever get better?
Mental health nursing jobs?
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
Ahhh... posted today... a dose of realism.
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
Leisl, I'm saying what I'm saying because I personally know people who have learned finnish very quickly. I have also studied languages in many different schools and I know the difference between studying in private language school and public language course.
My dad is the best example I know. He was able to work in a demanding job after studying only 6 months in a private language school. But he was married to my Finnish mother so I'm sure it helped. And Kieran too is married to a Finn. My dad is not a native english speaker so there is a difference there. And I have to tell you that he is in all the ways a regular guy. Not extremely smart in languages or anything.
I also have Finnish friends who are married to native english speakers and all of them learned finnish really quickly.
About language schools, I've studied one of the most difficult languages in Finland full time in Summer University and in evening school (työväenopisto) while I was also being friends with many native speakers. Then I've also studied the language in private language institute in another country and let me tell you that the difference of quality in teaching was huge. In language institute I learned in one month more than I had learned in previous 2 years studying in public schools. The language I studied is thought to be even more difficult to learn than finnish but still the school had planned to teach it in 9-12 months. And they actually manage to do that even though people say that it usually takes 10 years to learn that language. Often private language schools have their own ideas of how to teach and the groups are small.
I'm not saying that everyone can learn finnish in few months. But I do believe it's possible for some people. As I don't know Kieran, who am I to say if he can do it or not.
My dad is the best example I know. He was able to work in a demanding job after studying only 6 months in a private language school. But he was married to my Finnish mother so I'm sure it helped. And Kieran too is married to a Finn. My dad is not a native english speaker so there is a difference there. And I have to tell you that he is in all the ways a regular guy. Not extremely smart in languages or anything.
I also have Finnish friends who are married to native english speakers and all of them learned finnish really quickly.
About language schools, I've studied one of the most difficult languages in Finland full time in Summer University and in evening school (työväenopisto) while I was also being friends with many native speakers. Then I've also studied the language in private language institute in another country and let me tell you that the difference of quality in teaching was huge. In language institute I learned in one month more than I had learned in previous 2 years studying in public schools. The language I studied is thought to be even more difficult to learn than finnish but still the school had planned to teach it in 9-12 months. And they actually manage to do that even though people say that it usually takes 10 years to learn that language. Often private language schools have their own ideas of how to teach and the groups are small.
I'm not saying that everyone can learn finnish in few months. But I do believe it's possible for some people. As I don't know Kieran, who am I to say if he can do it or not.
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
SAHM, let's be candid here. You speak five languages. Or is it more? Do you think the time periods that you, personally, experience, are realistic for everyone else?
We do people a disservice by encouraging the rose-coloured glasses. Simply put, British and monolingual English-speaker makes for very poor learning prospects with Finnish. Not much really influences this.
Kieran might be well served by getting to know some fellow British ex-pats and getting real life experiences. British etc people in my own circles:
R, in Finland for three years, Finnish wife and one-year-old baby, paid for his own full-time private Finnish lessons, got close to fluency level, qualified electrician but wasn't able to find work anywhere as a sparky (has now taken child and pregnant wife back home with him to UK).
D, in Finland eight years, working in construction industry, sent for language lessons without a choice in the matter, terribly awkward accent and poor speaking, conducted all business dealings in English and simply hired a Finnish speaker to do his talking. This one was unmarried so was here because it made him money and he didn't care if he never learned. In particular, he had many British friends made through pubs and friends-of-friends and considered his story to be "normal" - this might be a construction industry thing though, I don't know.
D, in Finland four years, Finnish wife and 8yo bilingual son, working for international company using English. Despaired of ever learning the language but considered himself stuck here as they'd moved the child here for "better upbringing".
S, in Finland two years doing part-time language study as a stay at home parent, couldn't cope with the darkness and loneliness, finally cracked up and took the family back the UK.
M, has a Finnish husband, bilingual children. Also considers herself stuck here. Nine years on and off of learning the language. Still mostly unemployed. Does some cleaning work and is trying to start her own business. Rather depressed at her ruined career.
A, Finnish husband, working in English, 3 years here also attending Finnish classes four nights a week, terrible accent and poor speaking.
A #2, single, unemployed, works for self after failing to find any kind of full-time job. Studied here for six years full-time and learned Finnish at the same time. Her Finnish is fluent, although noticeably foreign with not great grammar. Eyeing up the job market in the UK with a view to a move.
J, single, years here, awkward accent, just on fluency, poor career advancement prospects and now looking at university education to avoid having to bother with the difficulty of jobseeking for another few years.
As far as I'm aware, all are native English speakers and have no other languages.
Edit: I forgot three from another workplace where I used to be.
H, working in both Finnish and English in a highly-skilled career, fluent but absolutely horribly-accented Finnish. He claims it took him five years to learn Finnish and believes he'd still not pass the YKI level 3 despite being able to instruct other people while speaking Finnish. Hearing his accent, I'm inclined to agree. (Sorry, H.)
G, working in English, poor Finnish after a dozen or more years here.
F, working in English here for probably just as long, no real Finnish skills at all. (These last two are facing redundancy at present, which is going to make life hell without the language.)
We do people a disservice by encouraging the rose-coloured glasses. Simply put, British and monolingual English-speaker makes for very poor learning prospects with Finnish. Not much really influences this.
Kieran might be well served by getting to know some fellow British ex-pats and getting real life experiences. British etc people in my own circles:
R, in Finland for three years, Finnish wife and one-year-old baby, paid for his own full-time private Finnish lessons, got close to fluency level, qualified electrician but wasn't able to find work anywhere as a sparky (has now taken child and pregnant wife back home with him to UK).
D, in Finland eight years, working in construction industry, sent for language lessons without a choice in the matter, terribly awkward accent and poor speaking, conducted all business dealings in English and simply hired a Finnish speaker to do his talking. This one was unmarried so was here because it made him money and he didn't care if he never learned. In particular, he had many British friends made through pubs and friends-of-friends and considered his story to be "normal" - this might be a construction industry thing though, I don't know.
D, in Finland four years, Finnish wife and 8yo bilingual son, working for international company using English. Despaired of ever learning the language but considered himself stuck here as they'd moved the child here for "better upbringing".
S, in Finland two years doing part-time language study as a stay at home parent, couldn't cope with the darkness and loneliness, finally cracked up and took the family back the UK.
M, has a Finnish husband, bilingual children. Also considers herself stuck here. Nine years on and off of learning the language. Still mostly unemployed. Does some cleaning work and is trying to start her own business. Rather depressed at her ruined career.
A, Finnish husband, working in English, 3 years here also attending Finnish classes four nights a week, terrible accent and poor speaking.
A #2, single, unemployed, works for self after failing to find any kind of full-time job. Studied here for six years full-time and learned Finnish at the same time. Her Finnish is fluent, although noticeably foreign with not great grammar. Eyeing up the job market in the UK with a view to a move.
J, single, years here, awkward accent, just on fluency, poor career advancement prospects and now looking at university education to avoid having to bother with the difficulty of jobseeking for another few years.
As far as I'm aware, all are native English speakers and have no other languages.
Edit: I forgot three from another workplace where I used to be.
H, working in both Finnish and English in a highly-skilled career, fluent but absolutely horribly-accented Finnish. He claims it took him five years to learn Finnish and believes he'd still not pass the YKI level 3 despite being able to instruct other people while speaking Finnish. Hearing his accent, I'm inclined to agree. (Sorry, H.)
G, working in English, poor Finnish after a dozen or more years here.
F, working in English here for probably just as long, no real Finnish skills at all. (These last two are facing redundancy at present, which is going to make life hell without the language.)
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
And in the interests of transparency, the non-native-English speakers I've known who were pretty fast:
A, in Finland about 18 months, got close to YKI level in that time. Native Spanish speaker, fluent English and Italian speaker, incredibly driven young lady who had the money to pay for private instruction. Fought with the TE office because they wouldn't let her go to university full-time and continue paying for her own Finnish lessons in her spare time. (I don't know whether she won that argument. She now has a small baby.)
K, in Finland one year, native Thai speaker, fluent in English as well. This lady spent her entire week speaking with her non-English-speaking Finnish mother-in-law by choice, in order to improve her Finnish. She didn't need to work. I don't know how good she got in the end, only what her plans for fluency were.
E, Russian, also spoke a minority language. In Finland two years, working full-time in English, passed the YKI test at level 3. Some feat considering she was working full-time, but it was her fourth language.
N, Russian-speaking Estonian who also spoke English, fluent in about a year and a half. (Again, fourth language). Did not pass the YKI as her grammar was so poor. But she was fast, and she could make herself understood, albeit awkwardly. Got a job in an upmarket clothing shop in the city, mainly on the strength of speaking excellent Russian with the rich tourists.
A, in Finland about 18 months, got close to YKI level in that time. Native Spanish speaker, fluent English and Italian speaker, incredibly driven young lady who had the money to pay for private instruction. Fought with the TE office because they wouldn't let her go to university full-time and continue paying for her own Finnish lessons in her spare time. (I don't know whether she won that argument. She now has a small baby.)
K, in Finland one year, native Thai speaker, fluent in English as well. This lady spent her entire week speaking with her non-English-speaking Finnish mother-in-law by choice, in order to improve her Finnish. She didn't need to work. I don't know how good she got in the end, only what her plans for fluency were.
E, Russian, also spoke a minority language. In Finland two years, working full-time in English, passed the YKI test at level 3. Some feat considering she was working full-time, but it was her fourth language.
N, Russian-speaking Estonian who also spoke English, fluent in about a year and a half. (Again, fourth language). Did not pass the YKI as her grammar was so poor. But she was fast, and she could make herself understood, albeit awkwardly. Got a job in an upmarket clothing shop in the city, mainly on the strength of speaking excellent Russian with the rich tourists.
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
Since I have spent many years trying to learn Finnish and have actually learnt quite a bit now, it interests me to read and respond in kind every time I see a discussion on foreigners learning Finnish language.SAHM wrote: I know personally people who have learned the language in one year well enough to work in demanding customer service, specialised vocabulary included. I've also heard that there are several filippina nurses working in HUS who moved to Finland because of job. My nursing teacher said that these women learned finnish in one year.
I am highly skeptical about people claiming to work using Finnish only within one year of learning the language. It's doable but only in case of linguistically gifted people. Either that or the person working at customer service is using lots of fragmented sentences etc to deal with customers and most likely on face-to-face basis, not on phone. And the same applies to nurses. People can learn the language within a year but it's nowhere near to being fluent or being able to work independently using the language.
Actually, it's easier to work in an environment where specialized terms are used because most likely those less than 100 words are enough to do your job e.g. cashier at ethnic restaurant or a nurse at lab who takes blood samples from patients etc.
“Go where you are celebrated – not tolerated."
"Aina, kun opit uuden sanan, opettele samalla sen monikko!"
"Aina, kun opit uuden sanan, opettele samalla sen monikko!"
Re: Mental health nursing jobs?
For some reasons unknown, English as a mother tongue speakers are awful to listen to when they speak Finnish. It's usually so heavy accented that my brain hurts. Just recently, I came in contact with an Irish guy who is to my surprise fluent in Finnish, but I just couldn't fully understand him while the Finns seemed to understand his babbles. Really, I just couldn't grasp every word he says. Perhaps, it's in the way he speaks but that accent.....leisl wrote: Simply put, British and monolingual English-speaker makes for very poor learning prospects with Finnish.
“Go where you are celebrated – not tolerated."
"Aina, kun opit uuden sanan, opettele samalla sen monikko!"
"Aina, kun opit uuden sanan, opettele samalla sen monikko!"
Re: Mental health nursing jobs
Okay, Kieran. You must be reading this chain with mixed feelings. Let's assume that I am wrong and all my Irish, British, Canadian and Nigerian friends are super gifted with languages, which is of course possible, do you have a back up plan in case you don't learn the language well enough?
Would it be horrible if you ended up working in a shop? You know that the salary as a nurse is quite low? You might earn more in selling washing machines. What about if you can't find any other job than cleaning. Would it be end of the world?
Can you start studying the language immediately? I love studying with worddive.com. It uses pictures which is very important to me. You can also hear how the word is pronounced and you get to practise how to write it. In learning a new language, most important thing is to find the best way for you to study. Do you know mormones? Ask if they can give you tips how to learn new languages. The Americans who goes to Finland to preach seems to learn the language quickly.
Would it be horrible if you ended up working in a shop? You know that the salary as a nurse is quite low? You might earn more in selling washing machines. What about if you can't find any other job than cleaning. Would it be end of the world?
Can you start studying the language immediately? I love studying with worddive.com. It uses pictures which is very important to me. You can also hear how the word is pronounced and you get to practise how to write it. In learning a new language, most important thing is to find the best way for you to study. Do you know mormones? Ask if they can give you tips how to learn new languages. The Americans who goes to Finland to preach seems to learn the language quickly.