Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

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BobbyMorocco
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:38 pm

Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by BobbyMorocco » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Hi,

I am hoping some of you browsing these forums will be able to provide me with some useful info.

The background to my situation is this:

I am an independent contractor from New Zealand and I am currently staying in Helsinki on a working holiday visa (temporary 12 month residence permit). My residence permit expires in April 2018 and as part of the conditions cannot be renewed. If I want to stay in Finland or come back to live in Finland I will have to find other grounds for gaining another residence permit.

For the past six years I have been registered as a private trader in New Zealand and have managed to make a decent living while being self employed. I would like to be able to continue my profession but would also like to live in Finland.

Now after reading through a heap of info online and visiting the Finnish Immigration Service it would seem my best way of being able to do this would be to apply for a residence permit for a self employed person. No dramas there I'm happy to do so, however in order to do this I must first register myself as a self employed person (toiminimi) with the Trade Register at the Finnish Patent and Registration Office before a residence permit can be issued. Very well, I have just bern to the Finnish Patent and Registration Office to do this but the woman who served me said in order for me to register as a self employed person (toiminimi) I must first have a permanent residence permit.

My question is how do I get a permanent residence permit?

The Finnish Immigration Service says I need to register myself as a self employed person (toiminimi) with the Finnish Patent and Registration Office in order to get a residence permit and the Finnish Patent and Registration Office says I need a permanent residence permit in order to register myself as a self employed person (toiminimi). So now I'm stuck in the middle of these two authorities with both of them telling me that I need to deal with the other authority first. This makes absolutely no sense! It seems impossible for me to get a residence permit for a self employed person from what I've just been told.

Does anybody have any info that could help make some progress?

FYI.... My business is solid. It's provided me with a decent living for the past six years and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't continue to do so. My finances are healthy. Everything is sustainable. I pay taxes in New Zealand and would happily pay taxes in Finland provided the authorities actually allow me to live and work here. I have valid reasons for wanting to live in Finland. It's advantageous for me to do so due to one of my major clients having considerable operations in Europe. If I was based in Helsinki I would be likely to source even more work through this client and thus have an even better income than what it is now. I also see potential to expand in Finland and go from being self employed to working with Finns to start up businesses which would employ locals. To do this I need to spend more time in Finland to keep networking. I already have a number of friends here and I like living here. It would really be advantageous for me (but hopefully the local economy as well) for me to be allowed to continue my profession while living in Finland, but I've come up against another hurdle and I can't see a way over this one just yet..... please help :)



Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

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israelrt
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by israelrt » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:30 am

You could buy a residence permit in Malta, Cyprus or Greece fairly cheaply ( around 300,000 Euros ) under their investor programmes.
This should, in theory at least, enable you, as a resident of the EEA zone to be able to reside and work in Finland.


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rinso
Posts: 3727
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by rinso » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:30 am

So now I'm stuck in the middle of these two authorities with both of them telling me that I need to deal with the other authority first. This makes absolutely no sense! It seems impossible for me to get a residence permit for a self employed person from what I've just been told.
It's the classic catch 22. You need to be profitable before you can get a RP, but you cannot become profitable without it.
One option is to change from sole trader to limited company in New Zealand, become profitable with an online business model and then apply for a RP.


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Beep_Boop
Posts: 2051
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 pm
Location: Niflheim, Suomi

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by Beep_Boop » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:07 am

israelrt wrote:This should, in theory at least, enable you, as a resident of the EEA zone to be able to reside and work in Finland.
Neither in theory nor in practice. Being a resident in an EEA country does NOT entitle you to reside and work in another EEA country. You must apply separately for a residence permit in each EEA country you wish to reside.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.


BobbyMorocco
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:38 pm

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by BobbyMorocco » Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:55 pm

Thank you for the responses so far.

It is my understanding that if I could become resident anywhere in the EEA I would be able to register my business in Finland and thus would be able to apply for a residence permit in Finland on the basis that I have a registered business in Finland. So I do think that could be an option in theory because at least this way I'm allowed to register my business. The practicality of it is that I don't have 300,000€ spare to invest just so I can become resident in the EEA, so this is not an available option to me.

Rinso: As it stands right now my business is profitable regardless of where I live. It's just that up until now I've been considered resident in New Zealand because that's where I was born. Now I want to consider myself to be resident in Finland, but obviously I cannot do this unless the authorities allow it.

The way my business works is that I provide my services to broadcasters at televised sports events around the world. My clients pay for all of my expenses while I am working for them and that includes all travel to and from events. So from my view my business is profitable regardless of my location. My clients would still hire me even if I lived in Timbuktu. My business has continued to be profitable while I've been staying in Finland as a tourist on a working holiday visa. If I were allowed to stay in Finland as a tourist indefinitely I wouldn't change a thing and there would be no reason to either. I can finance my travels as a tourist in Finland for as long as I continue my profession. The issue is that as a tourist I'm only allowed to be in Finland for 90 days out of each 180 day period and that doesn't work for me. It's hard to build on anything knowing there's a 90 day time limit hanging over you and then you theoretically have to spend 90 days sitting in timeout. All the momentum gets lost and I want to find a way to avoid this scenario. I want to find a way that I can continue building momentum without there being a 90 day time limit. A 365 day time limit with an option to renew at the end of it is fine, that's all I need.

What's happening is that I'm being told I'm not even allowed to register my business in Finland because I'm from outside the EU. If I were allowed to register it I would then be able to apply for the residence permit and I think my application would have a reasonable chance of being accepted because the business is profitable and my finances are healthy. But if I apply for a residence permit without first being registered then I think my application would get denied reasonably quickly because my business has not yet been registered.

In the end unless I can find a way to register my business that might be what I do - submit an application despite not being registered and see what happens. If not being registered is the only grounds that the authorities have for denying my application then it becomes pretty easy to work out that they should accept the application which would then allow me to register my business and everybody is happy.

I just don't understand how the system can be set up in such a way that requires two components, both of which you can't have one without the other and a system that doesn't allow to get both at the same time. It makes it literally impossible for someone in my position (someone from outside the EU) to fulfil the requirements. Talk about giving me a headache....


betelgeuse
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:01 pm

BobbyMorocco wrote:No dramas there I'm happy to do so, however in order to do this I must first register myself as a self employed person (toiminimi) with the Trade Register at the Finnish Patent and Registration Office before a residence permit can be issued. Very well, I have just bern to the Finnish Patent and Registration Office to do this but the woman who served me said in order for me to register as a self employed person (toiminimi) I must first have a permanent residence permit.
Either there is something lost in translation or the person did not know what they were talking about. A permanent residence permit is only available after four years in the country with a continuous permit. The statement is hogwash.


heretostay
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:54 pm

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by heretostay » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:54 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
BobbyMorocco wrote:No dramas there I'm happy to do so, however in order to do this I must first register myself as a self employed person (toiminimi) with the Trade Register at the Finnish Patent and Registration Office before a residence permit can be issued. Very well, I have just bern to the Finnish Patent and Registration Office to do this but the woman who served me said in order for me to register as a self employed person (toiminimi) I must first have a permanent residence permit.
Either there is something lost in translation or the person did not know what they were talking about. A permanent residence permit is only available after four years in the country with a continuous permit. The statement is hogwash.
I think what they meant was have a "permanent" address registered with maistraati. To have that, you have to be in Finland for more than one year or have a study program/work contract that lasts more than one year. If you get someone with a permanent address to register the company with you, then it could work. I suggest contacting a lawyer. I used www.mklaw.fi and they were very helpful at navigating through all the red tape with me when I started my company here.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2800
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:29 pm

heretostay wrote:I think what they meant was have a "permanent" address registered with maistraati. To have that, you have to be in Finland for more than one year or have a study program/work contract that lasts more than one year. If you get someone with a permanent address to register the company with you, then it could work. I suggest contacting a lawyer. I used http://www.mklaw.fi and they were very helpful at navigating through all the red tape with me when I started my company here.
Requiring a permanent address in the population register does not chime with the law either.
Verohallinto merkitsee hakemuksesta ennakkoperintärekisteriin sen, joka harjoittaa tai todennäköisesti ryhtyy harjoittamaan elinkeinotoimintaa, maataloutta tai muuta tulonhankkimistoimintaa, josta saatua suoritusta ei ole pidettävä palkkana eikä urheilijan palkkiona, ellei 26 §:n 2 ja 3 momentissa säädetystä muuta johdu. Verohallinto voi myös hakemuksetta merkitä ennakkoperintärekisteriin edellä tarkoitettua toimintaa harjoittavan. (11.6.2010/516)

Rajoitetusti verovelvollinen voidaan kuitenkin merkitä ennakkoperintärekisteriin ainoastaan silloin, kun hänellä on Suomessa kiinteä toimipaikka tai hänen kotipaikkansa on valtiossa, jonka kanssa Suomella on kaksinkertaisen verotuksen välttämistä koskeva sopimus. (22.12.2006/1225)
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 1118#L2P25


HeidiLiang
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:47 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by HeidiLiang » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:31 pm

Hi,
Here are some options for your reference:

1. Apply a degree program from a school to get a student visa? at least to start with. Then you can register as a Private trader in Finland. The registration is quite easy.

2. Ask one of your Finnish friend, together, you two register a limited company. It requires you to invest at least 2500 eur capital to the company.

3. You can use your New Zealand's company as parent company, to open an office/branch in Finland, and register yourself as employee. or as other people suggested, probably you have to change your company's type to a limited in New Zealand.


I think the lady who works in the authorities misunderstood your question/situation. Usually some of them don't know the latest politics from the immigration website.... and you have to tell them... (This is the point why I don't like to ask questions from the people in the office, most of the time, you don't get useful information and it's time consuming, I always search online first and then write email to them to verify or call them.... )


Hope above info helps.


ganesh1309
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Residence permit for self employed person difficulties

Post by ganesh1309 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:23 pm

Have you managed to register your business in Finland (or register as Toiminimi)?

You don't need to have a PR (permanent resident permit) to register a business here in Finland. Your current resident permit and an address in Finland is good enough.


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