Forum for practising Finnish

[arinacmb]

Hello everyone!
I have to say I have been visiting this forum a lot and found many useful things.
But I have to ask, since the easiest way for me to learn a language is by speaking it (or writing in this case) does anybody of you know if there is any forum for practising? I know enough to post (with the help of a dictionary) but I make lots of mistakes. So I'm searching for some forum or something, like where people (who are learning) can post normally in Finnish for example about music, movies etc. and then the native speakers correct every single mistake? If something like that exists it would be awesoms and it would help a lot. Thanks in advance.

[rob34]

http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/fo ... PN=1&TPN=1

And then try IRC.

Although I wouldn't worry too much about people actively correcting your Finnish... it will come in time with enough absorption.

Good luck!

edit: The best thing for my speed and reaction came from chatting with people on MSN.

You can find plenty of people by trolling thru livejournal blogs.

[rob34]

Another reply...

I saw you posted in the "finnish school" thread.

You would be better off downloading this free program called "mnemosyne". It's like finnish school, but there's a mathematical and psychological foundation behind it. I used it to learn 20,000 new Finnish words in a year. http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/

I used something called "the sentences method". The method was made up by these Polish dudes who tried to learn English, but I think it's best explained by a guy who used it to learn Japanese: http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/about
(read phase 0, phase 1, and phase 4 on the right hand side).

Then use this website whenever you run into questions: http://www.uusikielemme.fi/grammar.html

Have fun!

[rob34]

Thanks for that Rob. I downloaded that. I have uploaded an XLS of only 670 words in the Files section of the Yahoo group FinnishFF (Finnish for foreigners: groups.yahoo.com/group/FinnishFF, which I am the owner of), but these are the words introduced in chapters 1 to 4 of Colloquial Finnish and can be used by any beginners, if there are any, to import into Mnemosyne to start learning vocabulary!

Hi David,

If you're an _absolute_beginner_, then I'd say using individual words would be OK. But after that, I would only use sentences and ONLY going from Finnish to English. You'll get enough of the English to Finnish practice when you are chatting on IRC, etc. Plus you'll make twice as much progress!

The reason sentences are important, is because it puts the word into context. It will help you remember it and also some grammatical considerations at the same time.


An example sentence I would add would be:

q: Juicen kirjasto myytiin
a: myydä: to sell

So there's a lot packed into that tiny sentence: Why is it kirjasto and not kirjaston? Why is myydä in such a weird form?
So when you write down the sentence, you have to learn the answer to those questions. When you go and learn those reasons, the repetition of the q & a will help you to "remember" the grammar, but not in such a formal "school" sort of way, but just a "that's the way it is" kind of way, much like a child.

[rob34]

Rob, I am interested in how your learned 20K words in a year. Can someone learn so many words in a year? Or are a lot of them sentences?

They are ALL sentences.

q: Haju ravisti pois viimeisetkin unenrippeet ja teki hänet uteliaaksi.
a: ripe: a remnant

q: Täällä ei enää ollut kuin vanhuksia ja lauma vajaapäisiä huligaaneja.
a: vajaa: shorthanded

q: Lehdet olivat sateen litistäminä ja ruohot huojuivat.
a: huojua: to sway back and forth

That's it... just from books, movies, online newspapers... whatever I could get my hands on.

Now that I am learning Swedish, the sentences are much easier.

q: Gillar du drumsö.
a: Do you like drumsö?

So in that sentence, there's two new words... gilla, and du. And knowing that gillar is the present tense of gilla, I reinforce the grammar every time I see the sentence.

Now mix this with chatting with people online, watching tv, listening to the radio, basically doing stuff with the language. That's how it's done.

Now for the math: 20,000 / 365 = 54. Assume two new words per sentence: 54 / 2 = 27. 27 sentences per day... easy easy easy. ESPECIALLY because the words are in context. And if you keep the word in a context then you are likely to remember it, so your daily repetition count will stay low. Just putting "vajaa" on a card... you will forget that CONSTANTLY.

And find your own sentences... that will force you to use the language, because you have to actively mine for Finnish material.

On a good day, I would spend about 30 minutes doing review and an hour mining for new sentences. On a bad day, I would spend several hours doing review because I just wasn't into it, and then be too tired to mine for new sentences. But being bored of review made me chat more on MSN with Finnish people, which is also practicing.


Edit: And do NOT go from english to finnish. You will only slow yourself down. Trust me!

[onkko]

You cant learn all words but mostly words are so near of official so its clear what other means.
Exampe katsotaan = Kattotaha, katotaha, kattotahan, katotaha, kattotha, kattotahan, kattothan, katotaa etc... So mild variations.

[Pursuivant]

q: Täällä ei enää ollut kuin vanhuksia ja lauma vajaapäisiä huligaaneja.
a: vajaa: shorthanded

So did you figure out "shorthanded in the head" vajaa is used of "opposite of full" so also lacking/missing/ half-filled... in colloquial calling someone "vajaa" is calling them "tard" as "vajaamielinen" was an official medical term in the 50's.

[arinacmb]

Another reply...

I saw you posted in the "finnish school" thread.

You would be better off downloading this free program called "mnemosyne". It's like finnish school, but there's a mathematical and psychological foundation behind it. I used it to learn 20,000 new Finnish words in a year. http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/
Have fun!

Thanks, that one seems to be really helpful. Just one question though: I installed it but how do you add the things in it? Or to say it better: what do I do next?

[Satish]

Now for the math: 20,000 / 365 = 54. Assume two new words per sentence: 54 / 2 = 27. 27 sentences per day... easy easy easy. ESPECIALLY because the words are in context. And if you keep the word in a context then you are likely to remember it, so your daily repetition count will stay low. Just putting "vajaa" on a card... you will forget that CONSTANTLY.

And find your own sentences... that will force you to use the language, because you have to actively mine for Finnish material.

Were all these sentences in a single flash-card database? Just want to know how you managed that torrent of input everyday!!

[raamv]

Edit: And do NOT go from english to finnish. You will only slow yourself down. Trust me!

The First advice to learning Finnish !!

[rob34]

Another reply...

I saw you posted in the "finnish school" thread.

You would be better off downloading this free program called "mnemosyne". It's like finnish school, but there's a mathematical and psychological foundation behind it. I used it to learn 20,000 new Finnish words in a year. http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/
Have fun!

Thanks, that one seems to be really helpful. Just one question though: I installed it but how do you add the things in it? Or to say it better: what do I do next?

Now for the math: 20,000 / 365 = 54. Assume two new words per sentence: 54 / 2 = 27. 27 sentences per day... easy easy easy. ESPECIALLY because the words are in context. And if you keep the word in a context then you are likely to remember it, so your daily repetition count will stay low. Just putting "vajaa" on a card... you will forget that CONSTANTLY.

And find your own sentences... that will force you to use the language, because you have to actively mine for Finnish material.

Were all these sentences in a single flash-card database? Just want to know how you managed that torrent of input everyday!!

I got the "questions" myself by doing mining... actually USING the language... I'd read the newspaper, listen to the radio, watch movies, talk to people... Anything I found interesting and new, I'd put into a sentence.

For a while I was reading muumi books and just highlighting words I did not know. At the end of every chapter I would take all of the sentences with a highlighted word and copy them into mnemosyne.

To copy, I would create a text file on my computer, such as "words.txt".

In the file, I would put the "questions" and "answers" on separate lines like the following...

Code: Select all

pidän kissoista
pitää: to like

ratikassa oli juoppo
juoppo: a drunk

etc...

Then in mnemosyne, you click "file->import" and select the text file.


MAKE YOUR OWN SENTENCES!!! You need to actually use your Finnish and force yourself to do it. If you take someone else's lists, then you are missing the most important part of the exercise.

[Satish]

MAKE YOUR OWN SENTENCES!!! You need to actually use your Finnish and force yourself to do it. If you take someone else's lists, then you are missing the most important part of the exercise.

I am certainly 'mining' for my own sentences. Apologies if I gave you the impression that I was not. My question is:

Do all sentences get put into one big database? This means that in 4-6 months time all my sentences will be in one file only. Or do you create new databases periodically? Thx for this method, after using it for almost a week, it is as if someone has put a bit of NOx into the engine...

[rob34]

MAKE YOUR OWN SENTENCES!!! You need to actually use your Finnish and force yourself to do it. If you take someone else's lists, then you are missing the most important part of the exercise.

I am certainly 'mining' for my own sentences. Apologies if I gave you the impression that I was not. My question is:

Do all sentences get put into one big database? This means that in 4-6 months time all my sentences will be in one file only. Or do you create new databases periodically? Thx for this method, after using it for almost a week, it is as if someone has put a bit of NOx into the engine...

oops! sorry, I didn't realize.

yes, i keep all the sentences in one big database.

let me know how it goes! i'm interested to see if anyone else gets the same kind of results that I did.

[Satish]

let me know how it goes! i'm interested to see if anyone else gets the same kind of results that I did.

Results after about 1 week:

272 sentences and counting. Sourcing from everywhere and anything. Library, junk mail, emails, forums etc.. My favourite sentence at the moment:

Älä pelkää sinä piskuinen lauma, sillä teidän Isänne on nähnyt hyväksi antaa teille valtakunnan." Luuk. 12:32.
Trying to get an example for the word lauma.....

Learnt Maamme (the 2 verse 12 line version) in 4-6 10min sessions over 3 days. I came into this completely cold. I had never read it before nor knew what the lines meant.
I created a small separate card database with the cards structured as:
Question: Oi maamme, Suomi synnyinmaa! ( Verse 1 Line 1)
Answer: Soi, sana kultainen ( Verse 1 Line 2)

Question: Soi, sana kultainen (Verse 1 Line 2)
Answer: Ei laakosaa, ei kukkulaa (Verse 1 Line 3).... and so on.

I think memory skills guys call this 'chaining'. The great thing about this is that I can come into the 'anthem' at any point and pick up the next line. I also put the 'anthem' lines into the main database in the classic method of understanding the lines. Sometimes I have had to put multiple lines into 1 card to maintain the whole meaning of the clause / phrase Eg.
Question: Sun kukoistukses kuorestaan kerrankin puhkeaa (Verse 2 Lines 1 and 2)
Answer: There shall be time when you will burst into full blossom,
Based on a translation: http://www.nationalanthems.info/fi.txt

Separately, My musician wife is using this method already to memorize entire classical pieces for her repertoire. One piece almost done, another on its way...Will keep you posted on how that goes. btw: Under MS-Vista trying to embed mp3 files as Q&A into mnemosyne is just not working so I am using Anki for that..

On the philosophy of using sentences and mining for them, you are preaching to the choir here pardner!!

Now, the only problem with all this is I type in words like "separately" and wonder a whiles what that word means and is it correct....

[TERI]

Are Anki and Mnemosyne basically the same?