What does "Taa" mean?

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Rob A.
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:51 am

Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Rob A. » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:27 pm

skandagupta wrote: The corbies sing up above the grey wilderness
it`s gore that thaws this people in frore
behold how gleams the welkin
it beckons us over the swarthy stream
The weak fall into pitchblack vortex
when braves stride to riverbend
across the eternity the song rings
beckoning brethren across the swarthy stream

edit: usual typos
Hmmmm...I'm very curious where you found this....it has a decided Celtic feel to it, doesn't it?? ....:D

"Corbie" is a very Scottish word for raven or crow...and your passage reminded me of the rather stark Scottish version of the more syrupy English ballad, "The Three Ravens".... The Scottish version is called the "Twa Corbies"..."Two Ravens" and here it is with a bit of a translation.....:


The Twa Corbies

As I was walking all alane, ...................As I was walking all alone,
I heard twa corbies making a mane; .......I heard two ravens making noise (moan)
The tane unto the t'other say,...............The one to the other said
'Where sall we gang and dine to-day?' ......"Where shall we go and dine today?"

'In behint yon auld fail dyke,................."In behind that wall over there."
I wot there lies a new slain knight; .........Lies a newly killed knight;
And naebody kens that he lies there, .......And nobody knows that he lies there,
But his hawk, his hound, and lady fair......But his hawk, his hound and his GF/wife....

'His hound is to the hunting gane,...........His hound has gone hunting
His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame,......His hawk has gone to catch some wild birds
His lady's ta'en another mate,...... .........His GF/wife has taken another mate
So we may mak our dinner sweet............So we may quietly enjoy our dinner

'Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, ...........We'll sit on his white breast-bone
And I'll pike out his bonny blue een;.........We'll pluck out his bonny blue eyes
Wi ae lock o his gowden hair ................With a lock of his golden hair
We'll, theek our nest when it grows bare....We'll line our nest.

'Mony a one for him makes mane,............Many will grieve him
But nane sall ken where he is gane;..........But no one will know where he has gone
Oer his white banes, when they we bare, ..Over his white bones, when they are bare
The wind sall blaw for evermair.' ............The wind shall blow for evermore.



Meaning of unusual words:
twa=two
corbies=crows (or ravens)
fail dyke=wall of turf
wot=know
kens=knows
hause-bane=neck bone
een=eye
theek=thatch



Re: What does "Taa" mean?

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silk
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by silk » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:44 am

Rob A. wrote: the rather stark Scottish version of the more syrupy English ballad, "The Three Ravens".... The Scottish version is called the "Twa Corbies"
Interesting how the Scottish version turned the ballad into such a grim tale. The Finnish version is an almost direct translation of the Scottish one.

Kun kerran kuljin yksinäin
niin kahden korpin viereen jäin
ja kysyvän toisen silloin kuulin
mistäpä löytäisimme ruokaa taas
illaksi maukkaan haaskan taas

Niin toinen vastaa innoissaan:
on tuore ruumis rannalla
yks' ritari äsken siellä piestiin
tietävät sen vain hänen koiransa
morsiamensa ja haukkansa

On koira mennyt jo metsälle
ja haukka noussut on siivilleen
on ritari toinen morsiamella
niinpä me voimme syödä rannalla
nokkia miestä rauhassa

Voit alkaa hänen sääristään
tai sinisistä silmistään
ja kiharat hiukset voimme käyttää
pesäämme pehmusteeksi lennättää
pesäämme niillä lämmittää

Näin maatui uljas ritari
vain laulu säilyi muistoksi
ja paljaaksi luut kun joskus jäävät
tuuli vain niissä hiljaa valittaa
tuuli jäi häntä suremaan


skandagupta
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by skandagupta » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:00 pm

Rob A. wrote:
skandagupta wrote: The corbies sing up above the grey wilderness
it`s gore that thaws this people in frore
behold how gleams the welkin
it beckons us over the swarthy stream
The weak fall into pitchblack vortex
when braves stride to riverbend
across the eternity the song rings
beckoning brethren across the swarthy stream

edit: usual typos
Hmmmm...I'm very curious where you found this....it has a decided Celtic feel to it, doesn't it?? ....:D

"Corbie" is a very Scottish word for raven or crow...and your passage reminded me of the rather stark Scottish version of the more syrupy English ballad, "The Three Ravens".... The Scottish version is called the "Twa Corbies"..."Two Ravens" and here it is with a bit of a translation.....:


The Twa Corbies

As I was walking all alane, ...................As I was walking all alone,
I heard twa corbies making a mane; .......I heard two ravens making noise (moan)
The tane unto the t'other say,...............The one to the other said
'Where sall we gang and dine to-day?' ......"Where shall we go and dine today?"

'In behint yon auld fail dyke,................."In behind that wall over there."
I wot there lies a new slain knight; .........Lies a newly killed knight;
And naebody kens that he lies there, .......And nobody knows that he lies there,
But his hawk, his hound, and lady fair......But his hawk, his hound and his GF/wife....

'His hound is to the hunting gane,...........His hound has gone hunting
His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame,......His hawk has gone to catch some wild birds
His lady's ta'en another mate,...... .........His GF/wife has taken another mate
So we may mak our dinner sweet............So we may quietly enjoy our dinner

'Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, ...........We'll sit on his white breast-bone
And I'll pike out his bonny blue een;.........We'll pluck out his bonny blue eyes
Wi ae lock o his gowden hair ................With a lock of his golden hair
We'll, theek our nest when it grows bare....We'll line our nest.

'Mony a one for him makes mane,............Many will grieve him
But nane sall ken where he is gane;..........But no one will know where he has gone
Oer his white banes, when they we bare, ..Over his white bones, when they are bare
The wind sall blaw for evermair.' ............The wind shall blow for evermore.



Meaning of unusual words:
twa=two
corbies=crows (or ravens)
fail dyke=wall of turf
wot=know
kens=knows
hause-bane=neck bone
een=eye
theek=thatch
Well, i didna find it anywhere but coined it up as translation to op`s original poem.
I deplore many things about my oeuvre, as it lacks ..mm.. in stilistics :D
Especially "vortex" is very bad choice, as it doesn`t fit into my artsy archaismus :beamer:
I just,more or less,translated the poem word by word,and where possible,chose auld and archaic
words. Was a real thrill to have a chance to use "frore"just for this once.
As for corbie,it resembles modern finnish korppi,which is a swedish loanword.
Finnish word for raven is kaarne,still in use,at least in the bible.
As op`s friend had used korppi, i then took my oppurtunity to reverse it and
give it more archaic ring to it by using a regional alternative.
Yea,verily i say unto you,it`s but a poor attempt for a translation
op asked for. inglis wordes for finnish ones :D :D
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skandagupta
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by skandagupta » Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:05 pm

Three Ravens".... The Scottish version is called the "Twa Corbies"

What befell the third bird :D
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Rob A.
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Rob A. » Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:29 pm

skandagupta wrote: Well, i didna find it anywhere but coined it up as translation to op`s original poem.
I deplore many things about my oeuvre, as it lacks ..mm.. in stilistics :D
Especially "vortex" is very bad choice, as it doesn`t fit into my artsy archaismus :beamer:
I just,more or less,translated the poem word by word,and where possible,chose auld and archaic
words. Was a real thrill to have a chance to use "frore"just for this once.
As for corbie,it resembles modern finnish korppi,which is a swedish loanword.
Finnish word for raven is kaarne,still in use,at least in the bible.
As op`s friend had used korppi, i then took my oppurtunity to reverse it and
give it more archaic ring to it by using a regional alternative.
Yea,verily i say unto you,it`s but a poor attempt for a translation
op asked for. inglis wordes for finnish ones :D :D
Well...it does have a Celtic "feel"....:D

....after a bit of digging around I see the words, "crow and "raven" seem to have a similar origin in the Uralic and I-E languages....perhaps, suggesting, along with words like vesi and nimi (...and others I can't think of at the moment).... some ancient connections. The words varis and korppi seem, not surprisingly, to relate to the sound made by these birds.... The general Slavic languages word for varis/"crow" seems quite similar and korppi/kaarne"/"raven"/"corvus" seems to be similar in many of the I-E languages.....

Rather than suggesting "borrowing" it could more likely mean these "crow" words share a common ancient origin...similar to words like vesi and nimi ...(and others I can't think of at the moment)... .... related to the sound they make....which is one of their more distinctive and sometimes startling characteristics... I remember one of my sisters, as a small child, being "terrified" when a crow suddenly started its "cawing"...:D

Here's a rather "sinister" picture of the "Twa Corbies" ....and I think the reason the third raven disappeared may have something to do with traditional Scottish thrift....you only need two for a dialogue....why waste time and resources introducing a third "useless" raven.... :lol:

Image

...if you go into the wikipedia site on "Crow"....you can "supersize" this image....


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Vesper
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Vesper » Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:00 am

AldenG wrote:I'd hear it as a contraction of takaa -- behind, or possibly beyond, depending on the context. Don't know if that makes sense in your context, but that's all it says to me.

So "Behind/Beyond A Dark Stream/Current".
I think it might be beyond.... seems to fit very good in a google translation.
Sounds very dark and eerie.... like the black abyss. :wink:


Above the black ravens sing korven
Hurme's this frost melts
See how to cover the sky hohkaa
It will invite us to a dark stream of the TAA
Weak sinks kuohuun jet-black
The heroes will come when the river
Crack eternity singing raikaa
Convene the brothers of a dark stream of the TAA

But, then again, I don't know much Finnish.


Jukka Aho
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Jukka Aho » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:22 am

onkko wrote:Taa is short/poetic form of taakse (to behind)
Yep.

taa / taakse:
Viedään hänet saunan taakse!
Viedään hänet saunan taa!

...are identical in meaning; the latter is just a bit more colloquial/contracted/poetic.

luo / luokse:
Viekää meidät johtajanne luokse!
Viekää meidät johtajanne luo!

(Another pair of words that works the same way...)
znark


opinto
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by opinto » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:58 pm

onko taaj ja taa onko dense thick
haluan oppia puhumaan suomea peremmin Kirjoitaa se


opinto
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by opinto » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:00 pm

Onko Taaja Taaj taa dense Taa on Thanks Englannin
haluan oppia puhumaan suomea peremmin Kirjoitaa se


kalmisto
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by kalmisto » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:45 pm

opinto wrote:Onko Taaja Taaj taa dense Taa on Thanks Englannin
If I understand you correctly your question is : Onko englannin sana "ta" sama kuin englannin sana "thanks" ? ( Is the English word "ta" the same as the English word "thanks" ? )

In British English "ta" ( pronounced very much like the Finnish word "taa", the "t" is of course softer than it is in the Finnish word ) :
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ta

I do not think that Americans can say "ta" for "thank you". Or can they ?

Urban Dictionary on "ta" :
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ta


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Pursuivant
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:53 pm

tä?
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


skandagupta
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by skandagupta » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:40 pm

Taaja = dense,frequent, can be thick too,depending upon the context.
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Pursuivant
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by Pursuivant » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:57 pm

opinnon pitää syödä vähemmän psykotrooppisia sieniä :roll:
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


skandagupta
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by skandagupta » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:58 pm

Tai hänen on ainakin syytä kuivattaa nuo sienet,syöttää ne sitten poroille,ja lopuksi juoda porojen virtsa,kuten tsuktsit tiettävästi joskus maailmassa tekivät. Ovat ehkä kuolleet sukupuuttoon. Siis tsuktsit.










kirjoitusvirhe
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feanarosurion
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Re: What does "Taa" mean?

Post by feanarosurion » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:23 am

I'd just like to point out that in this case it's more like "Beyond the dark stream," because in the next song on their album they actually use those words specifically. Tumman Virran Taa is actually more like a prelude or interlude for the next song than anything else, and lyrically it fits pretty well with the next song too.


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