How long does it take to attain fluency in Finnish?

[deojuvame]

Well, if you need a definition of fluent, I guess this works as well as any:

flu·ent Able to express oneself readily and effortlessly: a fluent speaker; fluent in three languages.

In non dictionary speak, I guess it would be "being able to express oneself in Finnish without conscious processing of the language beforehand"...


Practicing Finnish can be quite an experience. When I'm with my boyfriend's family practicing Finnish, they think I'm really funny because whenever I say a sentence in Finnish, I make this huge exhalation of breath afterwards, kind of like, "oh goody, made it through THAT sentence in one piece!" The funniest part about that was I didn't even realize that I did that until they giggled and pointed it out

[deojuvame]

I don't like that definition. I can say many simple things in Finnish without conscious processing beforehand. But I am not fluent.

Well then what would be your definition?

[MinnaRaisanen]

Thanks to my parents, I can! Although I guess I am somewhat of an imposter.....I didn't speak English until I went to school.....ssshhhhh, don't tell anyone though....

[Hank W.]

But then we can call your bloff you don't know what Sister's Sausages are

[bluey]

as an englishman learning finnish I'd love to say that one day i'll be able to spak it fluently. Well, maybe it won't be too long.

One of the contributing factors that makes it harder is perhaps that once i open my mouth in finnish, the reply comes back in fluent english, and that is a barrier that requires some sisu to get through. Since I am determined to improve my language skills i tend to answer everything in finnish, albeit perhaps not very good. The aim is to be unterstood after all, and if i get the right replies in english, that shows something at least.

I read a point somewhere above that no native english speakers speak finnish fluently, though there are 2 english writers living in finland (have been for about 25 years) and apparently are fluent. Gotta have something to hang my hope on..

[No.6]

It's dependent on situation. The big test would be if someone goes for a month or more without speaking English to a Finn, then I guess they're coping in most situations they find themselves in. That's fluent, IMHO.

And I've never met a foreigner who could really do that.

Been there, done that

Honest, I aspire to speak Finnish the whole time (besides at home), and I prefer to "suffer" a few laughs than plod away in *English* which Finns cannot understand

My biggest sin is being too lazy to look-up the meaning of verbs before choosing them - causes a few shocks I can tell you

[Frypan]

I think it's important to know that it can be done. The role model I use is Keith Armstrong.. not actually sure what his role is now (Finnish soccer team coach?). Anyway, he's often on tv and radio fluently discussing technical football stuff, and commentating in Finnish on live TV.

Here's one interview that very briefly mentions his 'mastery' of the language.
http://www.nufc.com/html/times_keitharmstrong.html
My colleagues would point him out as prominent example of a fluent speaker.

He was once interviewed on Radio Finland, and was asked what his advice to learners was. IIRC, after two years in Finland operating in English in Finland (and doing courses), he moved to some way out place where no one spoke English and pretty much went cold turkey. He said that was the single most important factor: establishing a new social group in Finnish from the start.

I'm taking that advice and am about to do the same thing myself... I was working in Finland for 2 years, and now I've been away for 18 months. I'm going back this year to do a masters hopefully in a different town. I've been studying a fair bit since I left finland, and will start my return to finland with a full summer of language studies before uni starts. The plan being to use finnish language from the get-go, and not become the designated english speaker. We'll see how it goes.

One of the contributing factors that makes it harder is perhaps that once i open my mouth in finnish, the reply comes back in fluent english, and that is a barrier that requires some sisu to get through. Since I am determined to improve my language skills i tend to answer everything in finnish, albeit perhaps not very good. The aim is to be unterstood after all, and if i get the right replies in english, that shows something at least.

Absolutely. You're definitely on the right track there. If the sisu wanes, find people who can't (or won't) speak english. I have fond memories of my visits to the hairdresser and to the physio

I'd definitely recommend live-in intensive courses.. I've done two summers at Jyväskylä summer university http://www.cec.jyu.fi/kesayo/intens/ which I think is excellent. You get really wrapped up in the language, and it's a load of fun.

I could go on forever.... who's writing the language guide/faq?? want some help?

--fry

[Hank W.]

Neil Hardwick comes to mind.

[Tom and Jerry]

This is fluency in Finnish and thereafter in English:

(I'm fluent in Finnish.... without alcohol you will never learn Finnish fluently).



Taitotasokuvaukset



Ylin taso
6- Ymmärtää vaikeuksitta kaikenlaista puhuttua ja kirjoitettua kieltä. Ilmausten hienot sävyerot tuottavat enää harvoin vaikeuksia. Puhuu ja kirjoittaa erittäin sujuvasti tilanteeseen sopivalla tyylillä, ja pystyy ilmaisemaan hienojakin merkitysvivahteita. Kieliopin ja sanaston hallinta on varmaa lähes kaikissa tilanteissa ja pienetkin puutteet ovat harvinaisia.

Proficient


User C2 Can understand with ease virtually everything heard or read. Can summarise information from different spoken and written sources, reconstructing arguments and accounts in a coherent presentation. Can express him/herself spontaneously, very fluently and precisely, differentiating finer shades of meaning even in more complex situations.

C1 Can understand a wide range of demanding, longer texts, and recognise implicit meaning. Can express him/herself fluently and spontaneously without much obvious searching for expressions. Can use language flexibly and effectively for social, academic and professional purposes. Can produce clear, well-structured, detailed text on complex subjects, showing controlled use of organisational patterns, connectors and cohesive devices.

[eric71]

I've been with a Finn for almost 10 years now, though living in the US. I tried very hard early on to learn Finnish. I learned the early stuff, but eventually got frustrated and gave up. Two and a half years ago we had a daughter who we are raising to be bilingual. That has been the major impetus I have needed to really put the effort in. Someone used the term "toddler Finnish" and that is what I speak. Got to be able to understand my daughter, but that's all I'm able to do. I know many useful nouns, but am short on verbs and clueless on the endings.

I try to always use the Finnish word with her when I know it, but I end up using an embarassing combination of English and Finnish which I won't be able to do in society. Hopefully I can just keep filling in more Finnish words, but I think I really need structured study and being immersed in Finnish society to see if I've got what it takes to really learn the language. When she gets into Finnish daycare, she'll be picking up Finnish a hell of a lot faster and I hope I can keep up.

Since when I eventually get a job with my current language skills, it will have to be in English and I'll probably fall into a comfortable niche as far as work and my wife speaking fluent English. I think having a child growing up primarily speaking Finnish definitely makes difference.

I guess my point of this extremely long post is just have yourself a little Finnish half-breed and everything will eventually take care of itself.

[Great Scott]

Cuckoo, I used to speak only Finnish with the wife for quite awhile. Then we gave that up to improve her English. According to the definitions I have seen I would define my Finnish as fluent. Far from perfect, but fluent.

Took me about 3 years.

[No.6]

Neil Hardwick comes to mind.

- so Finnicised he's had drink and depression problems too. Shame

Keith Armstrong is my hero!
Moved to HJK and got them the championship as well.
What could he do for the national team? Would "they" let him become coach? Hopefully before it drops off the rankings list...

[Vera]

If I ever meet a foreigner with a Finnish partner and that couple use Finnish to communicate then I'll be impressed.

Don't know if you count meeting people on a web forum as really meeting them, but if you do, start being impressed.

I always speak Finnish with my boyfriend, and have always spoken Finnish with all my previous Finnish boyfriends.



Vera