Sinuhe 2011

[AldenG]

I also should have mentioned that ennalleen has a partner ennallaan.

As you can probably guess, the first is about changing/returning and the second is about remaining/being.

Ajat rauhoittuivat, mutta kaikki ei silti ollut ihan ennallaan.

Ajat rauhoittuivat, mutta kaikki ei silti palautunut ennalleen.

[Rob A.]

I also should have mentioned that ennalleen has a partner ennallaan.

As you can probably guess, the first is about changing/returning and the second is about remaining/being.

Ajat rauhoittuivat, mutta kaikki ei silti ollut ihan ennallaan.

Ajat rauhoittuivat, mutta kaikki ei silti palautunut ennalleen.

That helps... the third person possessive suffix added on to a case ending often seems to confuse me....especially the "-Vn" ending...the "-nsa" ending, though, I usually catch...

While I'm on the subject..."-sta" suffixes also have caused confusion...either elative or partitive...though I seem to mess these up much less often now....

Oh yes...and in one of my posts above I was talking about using the instructive case for time expressions....but I should have said the essive case....

[AldenG]

While I'm on the subject..."-sta" suffixes also have caused confusion...either elative or partitive...though I seem to mess these up much less often now....

That's quite natural and it improves with two things: On the partitive end, just recognizing the words like ihminen and anomus that end in -s/ta (plus vowel consonance) for partitive but require -sesta or -ksesta for elative; and on the elative end, developing the reflex that -sesta or especially -ksesta means elative regardless of whether you recognize the word or not. It also improves as you develop compartments in your brain so that a word is not just the nominative and a bunch of possible changes to that, but the word resides in your brain as 2, 3, or 4 stems (in a practical if not necessarily a grammatical sense) onto which the classically defined case endings go.

If you browse the mirror-sorted list of words in Sinuhe I think I sent you (not sure if it's helpful yet at this point), the prevalence of de facto ends-to-words like -ksesta, -ksista, and many, many others really stands out. Even the few exceptions to what I said above come clearly into focus.

I also forgot to say that if you had come across ennallaan before ennalleen, it would have been simpler to define succinctly and almost universally: "as before." From there it's a shorter step to understanding ennalleen. Here again translation is much more taxing than simple comprehension or even usage.

[Rob A.]

Valheen ympärillä parveilevat näet ihmiset kuin kärpäset hunajakakun kimpussa ja sadunkertojan sanat tuoksuvat suitsutukselta hänen istuessaan karjanlannassa kadunkulmassa, mutta totuutta ihmiset pakenevat.

..."Humans swarm around lies like flies attack a honeycake and story teller's words smell like incense while he is sitting in manure on the street corner, but humans run away from the truth."

An extremely minor detail: "kertoa satuja" can also be interpreted as "to lie", so "sadunkertoja" (as opposed to the more neutral "tarinankertoja") might have the double meaning of storyteller and liar in this context.

Thanks...that's really helpful. I suppose I was giving it just a "flat" interpretation... a "professional" story teller, I suppose, telling ancient stories, for whatever coins, or bits of gold or silver or whatever, [Don't know if they had coins at that time in Kemin maa...] that would come his way.

But your suggestion is better....more like someone inciting the mob. In English, too, of course, "story-teller" can also be interpreted, depending on the context, as "liar"....

[Rob A.]

Another paragraph...

Minä, Sinuhe, Senmutin poika, olen kuitenkin vanhuuteni ja pettymykseni päiväinä kyllästynyt valheeseen. Siksi kirjoitan vain itseni tähden ja kirjoitan vain sen, minkä itse olen omin silmin nähnyt tai kuulamani perusteella tiedän todeksi. Siinä eroan kaikista, jotka ovat ennen minua eläneet, ja kaikista, jotka minun jälkeeni tulevat elämään. Sillä mies, joka kirjoittaa sanoja paperiin, ja vielä enemmän mies, joka antaa hakata nimensä ja tekonsa kiveen, elää toivossa, että hänen sanansa luetaan ja että jälkeentulevaiset lukevat hänen sanansa ja ylistävät hänen tekojan ja viisauttaan. Mutta minun sanoissani ei ole paljon ylistämistä eikä tekojani maksa kiittää ja viisauteni on karvas sydämessäni eikä miellytä ketään. Minun sanojani eivät ihmiset toista viisastellakseen minun viisaudellani. Vaan kirjoittaessani tämän luovun toivosta, että minua koskaan luettaisiin tai ymmärrettaisiin.

Loosely translated:

"I, Sinuhe, son of Senmut, am however during the days of my old age and disappointment fed up with the lie. Therefore I am writing only for the sake of myself and I am writing only it which itself I have seen with my own eyes and according to what I have heard I know to be true. In this I differ from all who have before me lived and from all who after me will come to their life. For human, who writes words to paper, and even more human,who lets his name be and his deeds be carved into stone, lives in hope, that his words will be read and that coming generations will read his works and prise his deeds and his wisdom. But in my words will not be to praise nor will my deeds held to be valuable and my wisdom is bitter in my heart nor will (they) please anyone. My words humans will not repeat in order to appear wise from my wisdom. But in my writing I abandon hope, that (anyone) would ever read or understand me."

Well...that makes for pretty dismal reading....

Anyway, I've bolded the words and phrases I had some difficulty with...

1. kuulamani this seems to mean "my hearing"..??
2. tekonsa this seems to be plural "my deeds"...but how can you tell it isn't singular??
3. ylistämistä...I don't think I have this word properly figured out ....Is it a noun or adjective in the partitive case...???
4. maksa kiittää ....a colloquial expression, I assume....what would be the best translation?

[Upphew]

Anyway, I've bolded the words and phrases I had some difficulty with...

1. kuulamani this seems to mean "my hearing"..??
2. tekonsa this seems to be plural "my deeds"...but how can you tell it isn't singular??
3. ylistämistä...I don't think I have this word properly figured out ....Is it a noun or adjective in the partitive case...???
4. maksa kiittää ....a colloquial expression, I assume....what would be the best translation?

1. kuulemani, not kuulamani. Kuulamani sounds like kuula (as in ball bearing) and mani, so ballmoney.
2. his deed(s), singular and plural are identical: http://kaino.kotus.fi/visk/sisallys.php?p=97 It can be either all his deeds as singular blob, all that he has done in his life or bunch things he has done during his life, separate acts.
3. http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/Finnish ... C3%A4.html
4. Hmm... But my words are not worth the praise nor my deeds to be thankful for and my wisdom is bitter in my heart and won't please anyone.

[jahasjahas]

I am writing only it which itself I have seen with my own eyes

"I am writing only that which I myself have seen with my own eyes"

all who after me will come to their life.

"tulla" is here used as an auxillary verb to talk about the future. "Tulemme häviämään", "we will lose" and so on. So it should be "all who will live after me". (Or maybe "all who will come after me"?)

For human, who

Is there a reason you used "human who" instead of "a man who"?

my wisdom is bitter in my heart nor will (they) please anyone.

And it (the wisdom) will not please anyone.

1. kuulamani this seems to mean "my hearing"..??

Kuulemani, as Upphew pointed out. "That which I have heard". Also used for things like "kuulemani huuto tuli tuosta suunnasta".

2. tekonsa this seems to be plural "my deeds"...but how can you tell it isn't singular??

Well, you can't. But that goes for all words, since the possessive suffix masks the plurality. "Minun autoni on punainen" vs. "Minun autoni ovat punaisia".

4. maksa kiittää ....a colloquial expression, I assume....what would be the best translation?

"Ei maksa X:ää" = "It's not worth X:ing". Not that common. I can't think of a time I've heard it used that way, but it's still understandable. What's usually said is "Ei maksa vaivaa.", "It's not worth the trouble." But here "vaiva" is, of course, a noun, not a verb. (Not to be confused with "My liver isn't acting up.")

[Rob A.]

Thanks....

In the text, kuulemani, was spelt *kuulamani.....so either a publisher's typo ...or maybe an old form of the word....this book was originally published in 1945.

Also I noticed I left out a whole sentence near the end of the parapgrpah....all these repeated words....or maybe I was carelessness....

....ei ole paljon ylistämistä eikä tekojani maksa kiittää ja viisauteni on karvas sydämessäni eikä miellytä ketään. Minun sanojani eivät lapset kirjoita savitauluihin kirjoitustaitoa harjoitellessaan. Minun sanojani eivät ihmiset toista viisastellakseen....

"My words children will not write to clay tablets while practising their writing skills."

I've tried to leave this, more or less, in literal English....as the point for me is to learn Finnish ...not to be a translator... Having said this, harjoitellessaan appears to be a second infinitive [the "while ---ing" form in English] .....literally in this instance "while their practicing"....

Now I'm wondering how the word, kirjoitustaitoa fits in.... I suppose it's the direct object of the noun-like verbal element harjoitellessaan ...and a "normal" word order might be harjoitellessaan kirjoitustaitoa...??

[skandagupta]

Valheen ympärillä parveilevat näet ihmiset kuin kärpäset hunajakakun kimpussa ja sadunkertojan sanat tuoksuvat suitsutukselta hänen istuessaan karjanlannassa kadunkulmassa, mutta totuutta ihmiset pakenevat.

..."Humans swarm around lies like flies attack a honeycake and story teller's words smell like incense while he is sitting in manure on the street corner, but humans run away from the truth."

An extremely minor detail: "kertoa satuja" can also be interpreted as "to lie", so "sadunkertoja" (as opposed to the more neutral "tarinankertoja") might have the double meaning of storyteller and liar in this context.

Thanks...that's really helpful. I suppose I was giving it just a "flat" interpretation... a "professional" story teller, I suppose, telling ancient stories, for whatever coins, or bits of gold or silver or whatever, [Don't know if they had coins at that time in Kemin maa...] that would come his way.

But your suggestion is better....more like someone inciting the mob. In English, too, of course, "story-teller" can also be interpreted, depending on the context, as "liar"....

En tiedä Kemin maan satuilijoista ja valhettelijoista,mutta Keminmaassa (ex. Kemin maalaiskunta ) niitä on jos hakemalla haetaan.
http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keminmaa
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_V%C3%A4yrynen

[jahasjahas]

In the text, kuulemani, was spelt *kuulamani.....so either a publisher's typo ...or maybe an old form of the word....this book was originally published in 1945.

Hm, my PDF copy says "kuulamani", too, but it's clearly an error.

...and a "normal" word order might be harjoitellessaan kirjoitustaitoa...??

Correct.

[AldenG]

Elsewhere I was commenting to Rob on the parallels among ei ole ylistämistä (or kiittämistä), ei maksa kiittää (or ylistää), and ei ole ylistettävää (or kiitettävää).

Is there a universally agreeable difference of degree of meaning between niissä ei ole ylistämistä and eivät ole ylistettäviä or ei ole paljon ylistettävää, or is it purely a difference of style?

And where does (or did) kiitettävä fit in the traditional Finnish system for grading of assignments and courses? Is it the top or next-to-top?

[AldenG]

Does anyone else find it curious that Sinuhe writes kyllästynyt valheeseen instead of valheisiin? Is that just another example of high-flown style or is it intended to foreshadow a particular lie?

[Upphew]

And where does (or did) kiitettävä fit in the traditional Finnish system for grading of assignments and courses? Is it the top or next-to-top?

Both: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvosana

[Jukka Aho]

Does anyone else find it curious that Sinuhe writes kyllästynyt valheeseen instead of valheisiin? Is that just another example of high-flown style or is it intended to foreshadow a particular lie?

Maybe he's fed up with “living a lie” – “lie” as a concept / lifestyle / mode of existence in which you’ve submerged yourself. So it might refer to a life founded on lie(s) on a general level, not to any particular lie.

[Rob A.]

Does anyone else find it curious that Sinuhe writes kyllästynyt valheeseen instead of valheisiin? Is that just another example of high-flown style or is it intended to foreshadow a particular lie?

Maybe he's fed up with “living a lie” – “lie” as a concept / lifestyle / mode of existence in which you’ve submerged yourself. So it might refer to a life founded on lie(s) on a general level, not to any particular lie.

Well...my first take on it was exactly that...

Intuitively....[not that my intuition when it comes to Finnish is particularly reliable... ] ....I thought it was the metaphorical "lie"...pretending to believe in the "system" because of the personal "benefits" being spun off. The rest of the paragraph and the following ones would seem to support this...

I have also read in a literary critique that Waltari's intent with the story of Sinuhe was to write an allegory for the times he was living through....i.e the Second World War....

I thought about why, valheeseen, was singular and not plural, and what I have said above was the only thing that made sense to me.

So it seems the following sentence would make sense in Finnish and would be interpreted in a metaphorical sense...not literally: ??

Minä on väsynyt elämisestä tämän valheen/valeen.

How's the grammar? I'm sure it's not quite right ...