The Finnish r sound and Rammstein

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kalmisto
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The Finnish r sound and Rammstein

Post by kalmisto » Sat Oct 09, 2004 1:36 pm

Listen to this song ( Amerika ) by Rammstein! :

http://www2.nyt.fi/stream/rammstein-amerika.asx

There seems to be something wrong with the singer´s r sound. It does not sound German . It sounds exactly like the Finnish r sound. I would like to know why.



The Finnish r sound and Rammstein

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bretti_kivi
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Post by bretti_kivi » Sat Oct 09, 2004 11:56 pm

i have to say i'm not impressed with rammstein's new stuff at all...
but: why accuse the german and finnish r's of being different things? yes, the intonation is slightly different and the roll isn't so pronounced, but you're allowed to play "auf deutsch" and this is what comes out...

Bret
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khu
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Re: The Finnish r sound and Rammstein

Post by khu » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:04 am

kalmisto wrote:Listen to this song ( Amerika ) by Rammstein! :

http://www2.nyt.fi/stream/rammstein-amerika.asx

There seems to be something wrong with the singer´s r sound. It does not sound German . It sounds exactly like the Finnish r sound. I would like to know why.
The German r can become more of a 'flap' (or several flaps, resulting in a roll) in different situations, especially in dramatic speech or performance. As for why, I'd hazard to guess that this is partly for enunciation. The rolled or flapped 'r' sound is much more easily identifiable than the normal ('voice uvular') r. (Yay, I knew those linguistics classes would come in handy some day.)

And, heck, it even sounds more dramatic.

You'll notice that this also happens in some British Englishes. I've seen dramatic speeches or stage performance (Shakespeare!) performed with the occasional rolled r, even though the same word might not be rolled in a conversational context.
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kalmisto
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Post by kalmisto » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:37 pm

"There was even one critic who said that the way Till rolls his ´r´s when he signs is supposed to ..." :

http://herzeleid.com/en/press/1998-12_hit_parader


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khu
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Post by khu » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:18 am

kalmisto wrote:"There was even one critic who said that the way Till rolls his ´r´s when he signs is supposed to ..." :

http://herzeleid.com/en/press/1998-12_hit_parader
Well, Hitler (like many other politicians) did roll some of his rs when giving public speeches. Like I said, it's used often to give drama and gravitas to some public presentation, like speeches.
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pierrot
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Post by pierrot » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:32 pm

khu wrote:
kalmisto wrote:"There was even one critic who said that the way Till rolls his ´r´s when he signs is supposed to ..." :

http://herzeleid.com/en/press/1998-12_hit_parader
Well, Hitler (like many other politicians) did roll some of his rs when giving public speeches. Like I said, it's used often to give drama and gravitas to some public presentation, like speeches.
Yeah, the rolling R is just one of the factors that makes Rammstein look like some stupid Naziband. That and their Riefenstahl-like Videoclips.
But basicaly they are an overrated at best medium band. Their lyrics are wannabe-philosophical.
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khu
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Post by khu » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:25 pm

I don't really know enough about Rammstein to say, but it sounds like they like to be aggressive, and for a lot of people, 'agressive' + 'German' brings up a lot of bad memories of das Tausendjährige Reich...which is quite understandable, I suppose. I've heard that some of the 'Nazi' charges were brought by the German press, even. :shock:

This song seems a bit silly to me...is he complaining about American cultural imperialism? Macdonald's and Coca-Cola? :roll: I've heard THAT one before.
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pierrot
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Post by pierrot » Tue Oct 12, 2004 12:01 am

khu wrote:I don't really know enough about Rammstein to say, but it sounds like they like to be aggressive, and for a lot of people, 'agressive' + 'German' brings up a lot of bad memories of das Tausendjährige Reich...which is quite understandable, I suppose. I've heard that some of the 'Nazi' charges were brought by the German press, even. :shock:
The "funny" thing is that politicaly they come rather from the punk side, but their shows and musicstyle bring them inthe right corner (compare them to german nazi-metal liek Landser and you will see the similitude. They are not agressive, they want to shock so much that its almost ridiculous.
I dont even think they ARE rightwingers/nazis, they are rather so apolitical that they dont realise in which corner their music/show brings them.
khu wrote:This song seems a bit silly to me...is he complaining about American cultural imperialism? Macdonald's and Coca-Cola? :roll: I've heard THAT one before.
ANY song from Rammstein is stupid and shallow. I have not yet heard any song from them which would be a bit deeper than "hit me baby one more time" (yeah, i know thats from britney) ;)
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khu
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Post by khu » Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:36 am

pierrot wrote:The "funny" thing is that politicaly they come rather from the punk side, but their shows and musicstyle bring them inthe right corner (compare them to german nazi-metal liek Landser and you will see the similitude. They are not agressive, they want to shock so much that its almost ridiculous.
They just didn't put much thought into what genre they would want to follow then? That is, they just wanted to have an effect and were a little too naive and thought that they could copy something else without being grouped in with that 'something else'.
ANY song from Rammstein is stupid and shallow. I have not yet heard any song from them which would be a bit deeper than "hit me baby one more time" (yeah, i know thats from britney) ;)
At least Britney's music makes no pretense of depth, or at least the ones I've heard. Her most famous hits are well crafted as far as pop song goes but, of course, they signify nothing...
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