riidellä vs kiistellä

[cssc]

Are these 2 words that mean the same thing? Or are they used differently?

[Jukka Aho]

Are these 2 words that mean the same thing? Or are they used differently?

Riidellä tends to suggest there’s perceived or actual “bad blood” between the participants to an argument; they’re miffed or mad at each other, or find the opinions of the other side irritating, maybe highly so. It could also be used of situations where people are arguing or bickering over nothing in particular or teasing or mentally pushing each other over the limit where the other side will lose their temper and start crying or yelling, slamming doors etc. Think of married couples and little kids.

If you use the word riidellä to describe some particular situation, you’re taking the position the argument has gone far enough to make its participants appear a bit unconstructive (or downright stupid and stubborn) in their views and style or arguing.

Kiistellä is more about having a difference in opinion and debating the matter or arguing over it while still managing to keep it relatively civil and calm. (OK, it could be used of a heated debate, and the participants to the debate/argument might even raise their voices or say something unwise, but they’re not exactly pulling each other’s hair or anything like that. Yet.)

There’s probably some overlap in usage because the classification also depends on one’s viewpoint and expectations. Some might call it a riita when I think it’s just a kiista or väittely, and vice versa.

[cssc]

Thank you. I thought it must be something like that because it one place it said "to argue" & somewhere else it said it meant "to fight"

[AldenG]

In principle, kiistellä already implies (before further qualification) that the activity is more about a specific contested issue, doesn't it? And riidellä without further qualification is more vague about that?

That's already sort of implicit in Jukka's answer, where he says "bickering over nothing in particular" and then "difference in opinion" and "debating the matter." I was going to suggest "argue" (riidellä) and "contest" or "dispute" (kiistellä) as a way of illustrating the difference with English verbs, though both Finnish verbs would often be translated with argue or bicker. The "frequentative" ending -ellä suggests an activity that is chronic or perhaps desultory, and either of those adjectives fits "bickering" well.

[Jukka Aho]

In principle, kiistellä already implies (before further qualification) that the activity is more about a specific contested issue, doesn't it? And riidellä without further qualification is more vague about that?

Yep, sounds about right to me.

Riidellä has this air of people having lost their cool: acting in an abrasive or confrontational manner, being irritating or irritable, feeling hurt, angry, sad or mad. The personal conflict and tension might appear to have grown more important than the original issue or cause, whatever it was.

Kiistellä is still more about the contested issue itself. In addition to actual, serious debate and differences in opinion, the word could also be used of situations where people are just fencing with words, ideas, and wit... maybe to humor themselves, perhaps with a smirk on their face, but still in a relatively passionate or relentless fashion; not easily caving in to their opponent’s viewpoint. (Or it could just as well be all serious. But not on a too personal level, yet.)