What means "jospas" ?

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oravak
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 pm

What means "jospas" ?

Post by oravak » Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:35 pm

Hello, i'm new here.
I've started learning Finnish language, just like a hobby, for fun.

Started to translate simple children songs and learn grammar.
There is the song: Jospas minä kissan saisin, and..
..please, what is "Jospas", exactly that "s" at the end?
I understand what is "jospa".

Thanks a lot for your help.

PS: There is a lot of "non-existing" :-) words in thease children songs,
i thought they will be absolutely simple/easy :-).
E.g. kallehin, kanssas,... :-).



What means "jospas" ?

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Jukka Aho
Posts: 5237
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: What means "jospas" ?

Post by Jukka Aho » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:20 am

oravak wrote:There is the song: Jospas minä kissan saisin, and..
..please, what is "Jospas", exactly that "s" at the end?
I understand what is "jospa".
Grammatically, the -s is a liitepartikkeli, or a kliittinen sävypartikkeli. There are probably proper English terms for these, but let’s just call them an “affix particle” and a “clitic tone/mood particle”, respectively, since I’m not in the mood of looking them up. (See VISK § 821, § 829, and § 836...838 for a collection of grammatical descriptions which will probably make you none wiser.)

In this particular example, the -s seems to serve the purpose of emphasizing the simple playful/wishful/childish delight the speaker takes in reveling in the hypothetical “if only” situation — that is, if only he somehow were to come into a possession of a cat, and what would then follow... oh what a joy would that (surely) be! If only! The -s, or -pas, suggests the speaker is captivated by all the delightful potential he sees in that “if” word. That “if only” scenario is something to which he has really given a lot of thought in his mind, to the extent of planning ahead what would then happen (inevitably, at least in his dreams). So it’s a very dear “if” to him by now; something very satisfying to think about.

Maybe not too helpful, but that’s my best native speaker take on it. These kinds of little things often take different shades of meanings in different contexts and escape any simple attempt at describing them.
oravak wrote:PS: There is a lot of "non-existing" :-) words in thease children songs,
i thought they will be absolutely simple/easy :-).
E.g. kallehin, kanssas,... :-).
Older songs/poems often use dialectal variants of random words (or lop endings off of them) simply to force the lyrics into a certain rhyme or meter. For example, the standard form of the word you mentioned above is kallein — with two syllables, kal-lein — but using the dialectal form kal-le-hin gets you three, which might be useful if you’re trying to shoehorn it into a melody or a poem whose meter or rhyming require those three. Quite a cheap trick, really.

Modern-day lyricists mix and match the formal and informal (spoken language) register much to the same effect — trying to find words and expressions which best fit the rhyme and the meter — but rarely resort to dialectal words any longer since they would sound old-fashioned or jarringly non-urban (in a country hick way.) They also don’t butcher the common words quite as wantonly as the lyricists of the old days but rather prefer the forms people might actually use in their everyday speech. Then again, especially the hip hop artists make heavy use of the capital area (Helsinki) urban street slang which has quite a lot of words not generally used or recognized by those who live in other parts of the country.

kallein = “the most precious”; “the most expensive”
kanssasi = “with you”; “along with you”
znark

oravak
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:20 pm

Re: What means "jospas" ?

Post by oravak » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:01 am

Hello.
I was very busy for a few days, now i'm reading your great answer.
I would like to thank you very much for your time and help.
Have a nice day.


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