stem+i > e OR stem+i > i

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Phil
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stem+i > e OR stem+i > i

Post by Phil » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:36 am

Whenever there is the letter 'i' at the end of a stem, I have trouble knowing exactly when to turn the letter 'i' into a 'e'.

For instance, 'nuori' will turn into 'nuore-' - but some other 'i' ending stems will remain as a 'i' - what's the rule about this?

Thanks!!!



stem+i > e OR stem+i > i

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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:52 am

öööhhh... good question... I think the rule I use is "it sounds right" :oops:

would it have to do with having harmony with previous vowels?
veri - verenä
tuoli - tuolina

ok, this blows that theory
nuori - nuorena but there is also nuorina (the plural)
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Lau
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Post by Lau » Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:34 am

The rule is foreign word vs kotimainen (Finnish)
Bussi is a foreign word endiing in -i- and remain as -i- (bussissa) in the singular but takes -ei- in plural (busseissa)
Kivi is a Finnish word, ends in -i- and turns into -e- (kivessä) and goes back to -i- in the plural (kivissä).

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Mook
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Post by Mook » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:28 pm

Lau wrote:The rule is foreign word vs kotimainen (Finnish)
Bussi is a foreign word endiing in -i- and remain as -i- (bussissa) in the singular but takes -ei- in plural (busseissa)
Kivi is a Finnish word, ends in -i- and turns into -e- (kivessä) and goes back to -i- in the plural (kivissä).
Tuoli ?

(Oh and the "stem" Phil is talking about is the "Monikon Vartalo")
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Lau
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Post by Lau » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:44 pm

Mook wrote: Tuoli ?

(Oh and the "stem" Phil is talking about is the "Monikon Vartalo")
I may be wrong but I think tuoli comes from Swedish stol.
What's the plural stem "monikon vartalo" you refer to if not a "genetiivin vartalo" used for the singular as well?

Esim. osoite > osoittee+n (GEN)
Inessiivi: osoittee+ssa (Yksikkö); osoitte+i+ssa (Monikko)

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Mook
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Post by Mook » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:39 pm

Lau wrote:
Mook wrote: Tuoli ?

(Oh and the "stem" Phil is talking about is the "Monikon Vartalo")
I may be wrong but I think tuoli comes from Swedish stol.
What's the plural stem "monikon vartalo" you refer to if not a "genetiivin vartalo" used for the singular as well?

Esim. osoite > osoittee+n (GEN)
Inessiivi: osoittee+ssa (Yksikkö); osoitte+i+ssa (Monikko)
The way they teach is to get the nice normal plural, rather than the partitive plural.

Omena (Yksikkö)
Omena + t (Monikko)

and then do those changes:

i -> e
e -> ee
nen -> se
..

and then put the ending on. (Except for exceptions)
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Re: stem+i > e OR stem+i > i

Post by dw » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:10 pm

Phil wrote:Whenever there is the letter 'i' at the end of a stem, I have trouble knowing exactly when to turn the letter 'i' into a 'e'.

For instance, 'nuori' will turn into 'nuore-' - but some other 'i' ending stems will remain as a 'i' - what's the rule about this?

Thanks!!!
from what i learnt in finnish language school, it changes to an "e" if its an old word, things that have been around for ever, like mäki, joki, kivi, suomi and so on. but newer words like bussi keep the i.

dw

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Dolamar
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Post by Dolamar » Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:45 am

Yea, I heard a while that words with more than 2 syllables don't change the final i to an e before adding a case ending.

Words with equal or less syllables you must remember by memory. :)

This is what I read in chp 2 of Teach Yourself Finnish! :wink:
"Most people assume that everything they care about will always stay the same... but it won't." ~ Bradly Trevor Greive

hobbes
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Post by hobbes » Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:06 pm

from what i learnt in finnish language school, it changes to an "e" if its an old word, things that have been around for ever, like mäki, joki, kivi, suomi and so on. but newer words like bussi keep the i.
I'm not at all sure about the rules, but one problem I see with the words you have there is that all the "old" words have just one consonant in the middle, whereas bussi has two. I have a faint recollection from äidinkielentunti that sometimes the vowels depend on where you pronounce them, like whether you pronounce it in the back or the front of your mouth. For example you can't have a front and a back vowel in the same syllable etc. Well, it's all too long ago to actually remember, so this is probably all just bs anyway :wink:


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