Names for countries.

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onkko
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Names for countries.

Post by onkko » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:49 am

I pasted our biggest export countries to other area and again chuckled how different our names for our close neighbours are.

SE Ruotsi Sverige Sweden
DE Saksa Tyskland Germany
RU Venäjä Ryssland Russia
EE Viro Estland Estonia

Somehow you see old ties :)

Ruotsi from old word of rowers.
Saksa from old saksi area.
Venäjä from old ven "tribe/people".
Viro from old viru area.

Do you have anything to add/correct or do your language have "different" names for near countries? I would quess that all germanic languages have same but were not all germanic :)
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum

Names for countries.

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ml14
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by ml14 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:31 pm

Also Neuvostoliitto for the USSR. Most other European countries didn't translate the word "Soviet" in this name.

Not a separate country, but the name Huippuvuoret for Svalbard/Spitsbergen is also unique in that it's a native translation of Spitsbergen, whereas most languages have just adopted the German or Norwegian name for these islands.

It's not so rare for countries to have unique (i.e., non-generic) names for their closest neighbors: e.g., all of the Baltic countries use the term Soome / Somija / Suomija for Finland.

onkko wrote:I pasted our biggest export countries to other area and again chuckled how different our names for our close neighbours are.

SE Ruotsi Sverige Sweden
DE Saksa Tyskland Germany
RU Venäjä Ryssland Russia
EE Viro Estland Estonia

Somehow you see old ties :)

Ruotsi from old word of rowers.
Saksa from old saksi area.
Venäjä from old ven "tribe/people".
Viro from old viru area.

Do you have anything to add/correct or do your language have "different" names for near countries? I would quess that all germanic languages have same but were not all germanic :)
Last edited by ml14 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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onkko
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by onkko » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:41 pm

ml14 wrote:It's not so rare for countries to have unique (i.e., non-generic) names for their closest neighbors: e.g., all of the Baltic countries use the term Soome / Somija / Suomija for Finland.


I know its not a rare but i do like to hear about it, i honestly dont know names outside of finnougrian/germanic hegemony. I still find that sweden call us finland as insult :evil:
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum


ml14
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by ml14 » Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:15 pm

onkko wrote:
ml14 wrote:It's not so rare for countries to have unique (i.e., non-generic) names for their closest neighbors: e.g., all of the Baltic countries use the term Soome / Somija / Suomija for Finland.


I know its not a rare but i do like to hear about it, i honestly dont know names outside of finnougrian/germanic hegemony.


Another example is Welsh: they have a different name for themselves (Cymru) and for England (Lloegr), Scotland (Yr Alban) and Brittany (Llydaw).

I still find that sweden call us finland as insult


I don't care too much for the name "Finland" either; I'd prefer to say Suomi instead, but not many people will understand me if I do. :)


Rosamunda
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by Rosamunda » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:01 pm

For the French, Germany is called "l'Allemagne" ie: le pays des Alamans http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamans


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Pursuivant
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by Pursuivant » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:22 pm

UK and USA have "translated long names", but not translated abbreviations. UK seems to be translated in quite a few languages... Royaume-Uni... Other one pops to mind is the Netherlands, Alankomaat, Pays-Bas

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macora
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by macora » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:47 pm

Not sure it is what Onkko asked, or whether it is overly interesting, at all. Switzerland's real name in German is Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft. Schweiz is a common abbreviation, but the Swiss-German speakers do refer to the country as a whole as Eidgenossenschaft very often (literal translation would be companionship of oath, or in the oath, or so). Now who is to be called Eidgenosse (companion in oath) is a rather interesting topic, since the oath it refers to is the one from 1291. Which brings connotations of loyalty, and trust built over longer periods of time. Is the person who entered national parliament a few years ago with obviously exclusively African ancestry (very dark skin indeed) an Eidgenosse? That is just the most (visually) obvious case for the question. He is a very loyal person of high integrity, so I think not even the "perussveitsiläiset" questioned him overly much. But the question is of high importance to many.

Can you tell I am interested in psychology, and language :) And can you tell I can take any thread OT :oops:
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orys
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by orys » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:03 am

ml14 wrote:Also Neuvostoliitto for the USSR. Most other European countries didn't translate the word "Soviet" in this name.


Some have both. In Polish for example word "Sowiecki" is commonly used, but Soviet Union official name was Związek Radziecki (rada - Polish for Soviet).
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AldenG
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by AldenG » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:48 am

So Eidgennossenschaft is like a Verschwörung?
(It works better in Swedish, where it is sammansvärjning, swearing together.)

The Swiss Conspiracy?

Or more like The Swiss Confederacy?
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


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onkko
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by onkko » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:13 am

macora wrote:Not sure it is what Onkko asked, or whether it is overly interesting, at all. Switzerland's real name in German is Schweizerische Eidgenossenschaft. Schweiz is a common abbreviation, but the Swiss-German speakers do refer to the country as a whole as Eidgenossenschaft very often (literal translation would be companionship of oath, or in the oath, or so). Now who is to be called Eidgenosse (companion in oath) is a rather interesting topic, since the oath it refers to is the one from 1291. Which brings connotations of loyalty, and trust built over longer periods of time. Is the person who entered national parliament a few years ago with obviously exclusively African ancestry (very dark skin indeed) an Eidgenosse? That is just the most (visually) obvious case for the question. He is a very loyal person of high integrity, so I think not even the "perussveitsiläiset" questioned him overly much. But the question is of high importance to many.

Can you tell I am interested in psychology, and language :) And can you tell I can take any thread OT :oops:



This is exactly what i asked and this is interesting :)
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum


Sami-Is-Boss
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by Sami-Is-Boss » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:45 am

ml14 wrote:
onkko wrote:
ml14 wrote:It's not so rare for countries to have unique (i.e., non-generic) names for their closest neighbors: e.g., all of the Baltic countries use the term Soome / Somija / Suomija for Finland.


I know its not a rare but i do like to hear about it, i honestly dont know names outside of finnougrian/germanic hegemony.


Another example is Welsh: they have a different name for themselves (Cymru) and for England (Lloegr), Scotland (Yr Alban) and Brittany (Llydaw).

I still find that sweden call us finland as insult


I don't care too much for the name "Finland" either; I'd prefer to say Suomi instead, but not many people will understand me if I do. :)


'Wales' is an interesting name - its roots are in a word that means 'foreign'. That means it crops up around Europe for peoples that neighbour speakers of influential languages. Wales, Wallonia (in Belgium), Gaul...

On your second point - like it or not, if you're speaking English, you should call the country by its English name


ml14
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by ml14 » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:21 am

Sami-Is-Boss wrote:'Wales' is an interesting name - its roots are in a word that means 'foreign'. That means it crops up around Europe for peoples that neighbour speakers of influential languages. Wales, Wallonia (in Belgium), Gaul...


Gaul may be connected to this term (via French Gaule < *Wal-), but strangely enough, Gallia (the ancient name of Gaul) is probably from an unrelated root, which has been linked to words such as Welsh gall "power, ability".

The modern-day French word for Wales is Galles (which seems to be the source of Spanish Gales, Italian Galles), by way of the same w > g sound change.


macora
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Re: Names for countries.

Post by macora » Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:24 pm

AldenG wrote:So Eidgennossenschaft is like a Verschwörung?
(It works better in Swedish, where it is sammansvärjning, swearing together.)

The Swiss Conspiracy?

Or more like The Swiss Confederacy?


Haha! Totally a Verschwörung! I should start an initiative so the name can officially be changed to Swiss Conspiracy! ;)

The old, first "Eidgenossenschaft" can indeed be called a Verschwörung, namely to kick the Habsburgs, and any other outside governors, out of the territory of the initial 3 Cantons. Literally taken, it would comprise only those original 3 Cantons, but I guess whoever fought alongside them later on would count. Folklore usually mixes facts, and nice stories rather wildly, so the myth of the oath is naturally rather disputed. The document of 1291 does talk of an oath taken, though, and the people of that new "Confederation" called themselves Eidgenossen (Eid = oath, Genosse = companion) without "Schweiz" for quite a while. A Confederacy it is indeed, since many of the (nowadays) 26 Cantons were really seen as independent States, and still are referred to as such in some older expressions. Staatssteuer = tax of the State (Canton), and Bundessteuer = tax of the nation. Which brings me to another word. Der Bund (alliance, confederation...) is also a name used for the whole country, and there you see the relationship to the Swiss Confederacy, even in German. Confederation it is only in the official name of the other 3 languages, and in the Latin name that gave the country it's abbreviation CH (Confoederatio Helvetica), though.

Anyway, one of the smaller countries of this world, with way too many names ;) Please be aware, that while the translations are quite correct, literally speaking according to leo.org, all the psychological meanings or distortions are entirely my own interpretation :)
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