Sinua vs Sinut

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Spirit of the Forest
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Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:21 am

Hey. I was wondering, what exactly is the difference between sinua and sinut?

When is each one used, and why? Why isn't the other correct?

I know that "mina rakastan sinua" is correct. But is "rakastan sinut" correct? If not, why?



Sinua vs Sinut

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Spirit of the Forest
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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:17 pm

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I will look at more examples so I can better understand the idea. Kiitos kaveri.


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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:31 pm

I read somewhere else that when you say "sinua", it's an action that takes place continuously, whereas "sinut" is about an action that is done once, and completed at once.

Mina rakastan sinua - I love you. Like, I continue to love you all the time. Like the "love" doesn't "just end at once", it happens all the time.
Mutta, mina tapan sinut - I (will?) kill you. The act of killing is done at once, and completed at once. I don't "continue to kill".

Would you say that's a good rule to follow when I think about sentences?


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Spirit of the Forest
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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:10 pm

What are some other actions in which you would sinut instead of sinua?

After some more reading it says that you use "sinua", or "a" in the end, if you're not sure the action that's taking place will ever end. Like, you can't be sure the action is complete. I think I'm starting to grasp this a bit further, and yeah, I can't really explain it.

For example, mina suutelen sinua - I'm kissing you / will kiss you / kiss you. Kissing can in theory go on forever. It doesn't have to be a single action that's performed once. It can continue.

EDIT: This is what I read about:
Irresultative means the action is incomplete, versus resultative which is complete. When an activity is currently taking place, you put the object in the partitive, because you can't be one hundred percent sure that the action will ever finish.


AldenG
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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by AldenG » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:13 pm

If you try to learn such "rules" (though they're more like post hoc apologistics) predicting what kind of verb or activity will want a certain case, you will remain forever uncertain.

Spend your time focusing on actual usage. Now you know rakastan sinua etc. No need for a "rule" there any more, because you know the actual phrase. Now go learn more phrases. Trust me (or don't), rules will never bring you clarity or confidence. Knowing the actual usage will do that. And if you encounter a combination you haven't seen or heard before, similarity to other phrases will be a more reliable guide than an abstract rule. Fluency is imitative, not analytical. Language eitself evolves through imitation and analogy.

"Rektio" (English "rection") is the word tummansininen was looking for.

So in summary, "Rakastaa requires partitive" is not nearly as clear, direct, or effective to remember as "rakastan häntä, inhoan häntä" etc and as many as you can find. Even a child can do it. They learn faster less because their brains are different than because their thinking is different. :wink: They think less, analyze less, imitate more.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


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Spirit of the Forest
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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:27 pm

Alright, thanks guys. I just got a book on the language, maybe you've heard of it, it's called From Start to Finnish: A Short Course in Finnish.

It has vocabulary words, grammar, pretty much all I need.

The thing with me is that I used to speak Finnish when I was a kid, with my mom. But I haven't spoken the language regularly in almost 20 years. It's starting to come back, but I need a little bit of a push here and there.


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Spirit of the Forest
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Re: Sinua vs Sinut

Post by Spirit of the Forest » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:35 pm

I guess you're also right about that. Just like when I speak English, I don't think about any rules when I'm speaking. I just know the structure of the sentence, I know that this is the correct way. It would be more difficult to explain to somebody who is trying to learn English *why* I structure sentences the way that I do.


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