Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

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AldenG
Posts: 3333
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

Post by AldenG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:11 pm

007 wrote: This 'kiinni' connotes continuity....never realized that.
'Kiinni' is a great and timely example of what I was talking about with concepts not matching beteeen Finnish and English, which happens more often in this pair because the ancient mother languages are different, which would not be the case with English-French or English-German.

So 'kiinni' is hard to explain in English and I doubt it can be done in one word. But I wouldn't say it relates to continuity. It's closer to stuck tight, not going anywhere.

Ota kiinni! - Catch him/it, don't let him get away.
Pidän kiinni - I'll hold onto it so it doesn't go anywhere.
Pane ikkuna kiinni - Close the window, 'pull it to' where 'to' can be a bit like 'kiinni'.
Kauppa menee kiinni - The shop is closing (up), shutting (tight).
Jäin kiinni - I got caught (eg arrested); but also: I got stuck (in eg snow, mud).
And others.

All those things have a concept in common, the same concept, but it's one that doesn't have a neat representation in the 'English mind', unless the word just escapes me for the moment, and escapes Wiktionary, too.


As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

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AldenG
Posts: 3333
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:11 am

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

Post by AldenG » Wed Jun 24, 2015 3:33 pm

Hmm, my phone discarded the last paragraph of my post.

All those things have a concept in common...

It (kiinni) has some usages that have spread out or loosened a bit from that core, but that's the essence. Except what is 'that', really? Well, you know. It's 'kiinni'.

And cssc, I didn't mean you should post fewer questions, only to point to how your studies could be less confusing and frustrating to you and more productive. Of course I appreciate how difficult it is to find materials to support such a study strategy.
As he persisted, I was obliged to tootle him gently at first and then, seeing no improvement, to trumpet him vigorously with my horn.


cssc
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

Post by cssc » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:26 pm

AldenG wrote:
007 wrote:
Ota kiinni! - Catch him/it, don't let him get away.
Pidän kiinni - I'll hold onto it so it doesn't go anywhere.
Pane ikkuna kiinni - Close the window, 'pull it to' where 'to' can be a bit like 'kiinni'.
Kauppa menee kiinni - The shop is closing (up), shutting (tight).
Jäin kiinni - I got caught (eg arrested); but also: I got stuck (in eg snow, mud).
And others.
Very helpful.


cssc
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

Post by cssc » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:41 pm

007 wrote:Ok... I checked wiktionary again. Here's what i have found.... (Pitää kiinni, -lla/llä)
(transitive, + elative + kiinni) To hold onto.
Minä voin pitää laukustasi kiinni.
I can hold onto your bag.

Must have been my brain. Even though I'm really right brained, I can be strangely extremely literal when it comes to words. If the word 'with' wasn't there, it didn't register that I shoudld use -lla in that sentence. :|


cssc
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:15 pm

Re: Mä pidän kahden sormin kans.

Post by cssc » Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:11 pm

AldenG wrote:Hmm, my phone discarded the last paragraph of my post.

And cssc, I didn't mean you should post fewer questions, only to point to how your studies could be less confusing and frustrating to you and more productive. Of course I appreciate how difficult it is to find materials to support such a study strategy.
Good to know. I'm really good at making worksheets from other lessons (probably like that book- repeat, repeat, repeat!), but if the subject isn't interesting to me I just won't retain the words as well. The stuff I'm interested is outdoor activities, living on a farm/ in the country, adventure type stuff, music, art, working out/kickin' butt, & things in the home. Those are things I would actually talk about every day, too, so I'd retain the stuff by talking about it. None of those subjects has come up in my learning materials, not often enough where I can really talk about those things. I can say musiikki, maa, taide, & taidemuseo.
In those books, it's always school, the bank, shopping, restaurants, going to the movies & travel. Believe it or not I rarely get to do any of those things, and I can't eat at restaurants. So it seems pretty irrelevant to me.
I am more amused by my frustration than annoyed. I can deal with it. I just don't want to end up saying things wrong. Relearning would be a bigger pain for my brain :wink:
Ideally I would like to write out a few paragraphs on the subjects I'm interested in & have you guys translate them & then discuss the parts I don't understand, but I know it ain't your job. Might be quicker in the long run, though.
So there it is. :|


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