Comitative Plural

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Phineas
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Comitative Plural

Post by Phineas » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:55 am

In John Olli's book "Fundamentals of Finnish Grammar" the comitative plural suffix of both nouns and adjectives is -ine. In other sources (e.g. Wiktionary) adjectives get the -ine and nouns -ineen. Is Olli's book wrong on this point? Or out of date?

While we're on the subject, I noticed that Wiktionary gives "kauniineen" as the comitative plural of "kaunis." Should it be "kauniine"?

Thanks



Comitative Plural

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Upphew
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Comitative Plural

Post by Upphew » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:28 pm

Phineas wrote:In John Olli's book "Fundamentals of Finnish Grammar" the comitative plural suffix of both nouns and adjectives is -ine. In other sources (e.g. Wiktionary) adjectives get the -ine and nouns -ineen. Is Olli's book wrong on this point? Or out of date?

While we're on the subject, I noticed that Wiktionary gives "kauniineen" as the comitative plural of "kaunis." Should it be "kauniine"?

Thanks
Kauniineen - Kauniine autoineen. With his beautifuls - With his beautiful cars. I'm not sure if I'd ever use kauniineen.
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Jukka Aho
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Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Comitative Plural

Post by Jukka Aho » Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:03 am

Phineas wrote:In John Olli's book "Fundamentals of Finnish Grammar" the comitative plural suffix of both nouns and adjectives is -ine. In other sources (e.g. Wiktionary) adjectives get the -ine and nouns -ineen. Is Olli's book wrong on this point? Or out of date?
The -(e)n is actually the third person possessive suffix.

Saavuin kirjoineni.
Saavuit kirjoinesi.
Hän saapui kirjoineen.

For more information, see:

http://scripta.kotus.fi/visk/sisallys.php?p=95
http://scripta.kotus.fi/visk/sisallys.php?p=1264
Phineas wrote:While we're on the subject, I noticed that Wiktionary gives "kauniineen" as the comitative plural of "kaunis." Should it be "kauniine"?
Sometimes adjectives are used "stand alone", as if they were nouns - to represent a thing; as a "stand-in" for a thing - instead of just as attributes modifying a noun. Such usage might allow the comitative:

Hän saapui vertaisineen.

Also, some types of adjectives take the possessive suffix (which is what the comitative requires from nouns) more naturally than others:

http://scripta.kotus.fi/cgi-bin/viskter ... =aCHEEECBE
http://scripta.kotus.fi/cgi-bin/viskter ... =sCJGEEBGB

However, kauniineen (e.g. Hän saapui kauniineen) sounds weird and forced, or at least ambiguous as to what is being meant here. (Who are "the beautiful".) If someone is using it like that, then the word has taken on a special meaning which is not common usage and would require a prior explanation or definition.
znark


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