looking for examples etc?

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WebDesEyen
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looking for examples etc?

Post by WebDesEyen » Tue May 27, 2003 12:12 pm

hi all!

as we all know it's not easy to land a job these days (and it really is not just a finnish thing, it's crappy all over europe right now), and i was wondering why nobody here started this before...
why not help your fellows and assist them in the jobhunt?
  • what does a finnish employer like?
  • how should a resume be set up?
  • the perfect coverletter?
  • what to say?
  • and more important, what not to say at interviews?
  • how to dress?
  • any other suggestions?
if you are one of those few people that for some reason always gets an invitation for a meeting, please share your secrets!
  • post the letter that landed you a great job.
  • post the resume that landed you a great job.
  • describe what happened at your interview.
  • describe what went wrong, and what you should have done instead.
  • tell us what went right, and how you deal with being non finnish.
  • anything!


i should have studied something basic, like quantummechanics...

looking for examples etc?

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Handsome
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Post by Handsome » Tue May 27, 2003 1:31 pm

Hi,

If I rememebr correctly, you're trying to find somewhere in Vaasa? If my girlfriend and I move back there, I could be in the same boat in the future.

My thoughts:

First up - be yourself, regardless of the situation. In my opinion, not enough people do this. At my last interview I was told there was a high possibility of overtime, possibly up to six months. My response was "Yeah, of course overtime is necessary, but a balance between work and your social life is needed." The interviewers face looked like "What? How dare you say that? Didn't you know you were born to be a slave?"

As you can imagine I didn't get the job. But then again, I didn't want to work with people like that, either. Would you?

Interviews are all about presentation - how you sell yourself. Go too far though and you'll give the impression you're something you're not. You need to make yourself stand out from everyone else who's applying for the same position.

- what does a finnish employer like?

From the interviews and adverts I've seen, I'd say Finnish employers like people who are willing to learn new things and be adaptive. Finns like people who take the initiative, rather than just sit back and go with the flow.

- how should a resume be set up?

Don't use standard formats and fonts. Make it look different. Don't go into too much detail, either. Two pages is optimum, although it's not always that easy.

- the perfect coverletter?

Like I said, make it stand out. Give examples of what you've previously done, where you want to go etc. Tell them about yourself; your positive points etc. They don't need to know about your butterfly collection at this point, though. :wink:
I must admit, I get the impession that Finns prefer verbal contact to written applications. (Presuming you're sending random applications) A phone call might get you an interview a little quicker if you're applying for random positions.

- what to say? and more important, what not to say at interviews?

I'd say they like to hear about people who are open to new things, willing to learn new things. However, above all, be honest! Try to look like you know what you're talking about.

One last thing on the 'talking' thing. When they ask about the wage you would like, don't be afraid to ask for exactly what you want. I made this mistake for a few years. For the position I currently have, I said that I wouldn't accept what they offered and challenged it. Eventually, I won. It doesn't matter what the 'going rate' is. If there's a price you want, ask for it.

- how to dress?

Finns only dress up when they go to Kaarle. :wink: A shirt (without tie) is enough for your average Finnish interview. You'll only wear it for a few days then you'll put your jeans on, like the rest of us. Saying that, if it's a managerial position you're going for, then wear a suit (with tie).

- any other suggestions?

Don't shake hands too many times after the interivew. I've made this mistake before. It's a tad embarrassing. :oops:

- post the resume that landed you a great job.

I had a corker of an application letter when I first moved to Finland. (don't have it anymore) I got two interviews which led to two job offers. Saying that, that was over four years ago and foreign IT workers were kind of still in the minority (apart from Nokia).

- describe what happened at your interview.

You get the usual "This is how our company works, tell us what you've done, what you'd like to do, tell us about yourself" etc. Plus the obligitory "Why did you come to Finland?"

- and how you deal with being non finnish.

Being from the North East of the UK, I held back my accent, but that's it. But now everyone who insists on speaking English gets the full 'artlepudlian/geordie accent.

And that's about that. Hope it was useful! :D

Christ, I should be a careers adviser... :wink:


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Tue May 27, 2003 2:37 pm

http://www.kuru.da.ru
(links are mostly shot, but something about the hype in 1997...)
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


perhonen
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Post by perhonen » Tue May 27, 2003 2:55 pm

I think its a very nice idea to share more of the job hunting experience. I remember we had a job interview thread in the old forum.

The most strange experience for me was that I always send this very accurate cover letters and CVs and with this you very often get no response what so ever. In Germany they anyhow thank for the application or confirm that they got it.

Anyway here an unformal email or a polite phonecall has been much more successful. Maybe they are just bored of all these applications or they are just more informal than other cultures.
They very often send emails or faxes without sending and recipients references or so.

I will share more experience late with you.


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Thu May 29, 2003 1:02 pm

perhonen wrote:The most strange experience for me was that I always send this very accurate cover letters and CVs and with this you very often get no response what so ever.


Stamps cost too much here. As printing even a form reply letter. And no, they can't afford to hire anybody to do that here...

In 1994 I think I sent a few hundred applications in Finland and abroad. Only 2 replys came - both from the UK.

Americans don't answer overseas either.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


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WebDesEyen
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Post by WebDesEyen » Thu May 29, 2003 9:28 pm

Handsome wrote:Hi,

If I rememebr correctly, you're trying to find somewhere in Vaasa? If my girlfriend and I move back there, I could be in the same boat in the future.
dear handsome, thank you very much for your great reply! there are many things i will take into account from it!

my plan is indeed to move to vaasa or the immediate area. there are a couple of large international companies there, like abb. they actually have an office fairly close to where i live now, it might be a good idea to have a chat there and see what the possibillities are.

admin guys, is there any way that we can add attachments to this board? i seem to remember that it is possible somehow... it would help adding things like resume's and cv's and letters that worked...
i should have studied something basic, like quantummechanics...


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Hank W.
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Post by Hank W. » Thu May 29, 2003 10:51 pm

copy + paste, plain ascii text

no 640KB penis extensions with micro$haft macros please.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.


Handsome
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Post by Handsome » Fri May 30, 2003 10:10 am

WebDesEyen wrote:my plan is indeed to move to vaasa or the immediate area. there are a couple of large international companies there, like abb. they actually have an office fairly close to where i live now, ...


Yeah, I was thinking of ABB, too. I'm sure there'll be other IT/technology companies, but they'll be much smaller.

Stu


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neil
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Post by neil » Fri May 30, 2003 10:59 am

The Swiss giant ain't doin' well at all so I'd forget that one for a while.
Neil

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PeterF
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Post by PeterF » Fri May 30, 2003 2:21 pm

Handsome wrote:
WebDesEyen wrote:my plan is indeed to move to vaasa or the immediate area. there are a couple of large international companies there, like abb. they actually have an office fairly close to where i live now, ...


Yeah, I was thinking of ABB, too. I'm sure there'll be other IT/technology companies, but they'll be much smaller.

Stu

Sorry Guys
As Neil says tough times at ABB and
...ABB Vaasa are head counting..but if they follow the example of the Big N and out source their non core business e.g. IT...I wonder who would handle that localy??
Probably.
http://www.tietoenator.com/main.asp?path=1


perhonen
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Post by perhonen » Fri May 30, 2003 5:07 pm

wärtsilä is in vaasa, too. They have a lot of activities and they build up an SAP system right now. Company language is English.


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jvrijn
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Post by jvrijn » Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:09 pm

WebDesEyen wrote:my plan is indeed to move to vaasa or the immediate area. there are a couple of large international companies there, like abb. they actually have an office fairly close to where i live now, it might be a good idea to have a chat there and see what the possibillities are.


Also check IBM. They have a Global services division in Vaasa.


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WebDesEyen
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Post by WebDesEyen » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:28 am

jvrijn wrote:Also check IBM. They have a Global services division in Vaasa.
they do? cool! didn't know that! dank je wel!
i should have studied something basic, like quantummechanics...


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