FOR ROMANIANS AND BULGARIANS - DO NOT COME WITHOUT PLANNING

[Hank W.]

guys, in plain english, without meaning disrespect for anybody's opinion (we combat here opinions, not people), i think Hank over-reacted on a piece of news. the time prove he was wrong, and Finland was not flooded by "totaly naive" Romanians & Bulgarians seeking jobs in airport

Actually, I rented a room for 4 months for... not "totally naive" but lets say "in for a learning curve" middle-aged Romanian couple. Not some semi-literate farmers coming from some goat-smelling village with the image a dog with the pretzel in the tail - educated, worked overseas, qualifications, references.... but also the same reason "Finland is the only few EU country that had free movement of labor"... yes... if you could *get* a job.

And you know what? There wasn't a job biting them in the nose - instead there was a meter of snow. So I've seen this right there in person. I *know* these people. Honest, hardworking, experienced... but, the employers in their own profession says:"do you speak Finnish"... no talk of need of workers; employment office says "look in the internet", police says "wrong papers, piss off". The ordeal of getting the employer to write a contract (because before that month "New EU" used to need a residence permit) and the police telling to "piss off" and the magistrate telling you need a contract... *you* try to deal with this with limited vocabulary and then come tell me how to over-react as I had trouble even as a Finn to try and get the bureaucracy sorted.

And all I get as thanks is disrespect.

[brindusa]

First of all, Jussi, thanks! Virtual friends, virtual problems... "e-addiction". I'll do my best not to become a Bahmu-Prigoana case for Finnish fora.

I should be happy that some people can't believe media can lie like this. It feels so good to afford to trust the others...
But I do remember some others telling endless stories in the Romanian newspapers and TV news about how Finland "has finally opened its gates". To Romanians that is, not to Finns wishing to experience life abroad... Why would Finns do that? Why should we care anyway?
So I could say it is possible for news to be so (sick and) wrong. Especially in countries where the communist TV "offer" was SO exciting before 'the fall of communism'.
Now this improved version of old TV (is it a capitalist version?) says life is great. And You can do it.
You know TV, he's an old friend, you've been around this friend for so many years.
TV doesn't really know how things should be done. He's never got a job. Other than being paid by you, that is.
He's never been abroad actually. Not with the same stories, anyway.
He doesn't have kids, he doesn't miss his parents. His problems end when you push a button.
I'm not saying to throw TV away. It would be such a shame.

It is possible that in Romania counting trees is becoming insanely easy. They are cutting them down (don't ask me who and why, I'm trying to quit ingesting Romanian news) especially in that mad Bucharest. I know that.

Life can be hard in Romania, I know. But in the 5 o'clock news they say stories of children committing suicide because mom and dad have been away for too long, and in the evening news you hear about gates being finally open for Romanians to leave Romania. (Bill Gates included) It's ironic that the handiest explanation for this paradox would be that somebody is trying to win some hearts and some votes out of admitting that really good life can only happen abroad AND they, the good guys, are finally handling the w/hole thing just to let Romanians chase their dreams.

We had a visitor in January. Some acquaintance from Romania wanted to work in Finland. I've poisoned a week or so reading... texts, I guess... from Uranus to understand better what's happening. Told the guy. He is smart, he has common sense. He understood. But his wife and his brother-in-law not so much. His kid was cool about it anyway. The problem was that the brother-in-law lives a successful life somewhere in EU. He had guts and news say guts is what it takes to succeed. We - me and my husband - are just some lame nerds (and we know it and admitted that when it came to networking in Finland).
So he came. I think it was the first week of January. Stayed at a hostel, 'visited' all those recruitment agencies he could find from the list provided by the employment office. I went with him in the first days. I'll never forget the look on those people's faces when we told them the guy doesn't speak English that well. Don't mention Finnish. The Romanian news didn't seem to mention it anyway...
So after a week or so he went home. He was very impressed with his experience here. Nice people, he said. Wanting to help but things don't work the way he could think of back home. Bad cars. Cheap. What's wrong with these Finns riding the bicycle and buying such unappealing cars? And a rather low income, how can that be? Is this EU?! Or is it ME?
They must be much more modest than what we are used to back home, he said. I like his common sense. It felt horrible that I left him stay at a hostel, spend a lot of money. But my spouse said that's the way to go/learn. It wasn't a matter of luck, a week or a month or three. So rip the bandage off. That is the money he willingly chose to spend as an investment in a better life. TV is so instructive, teaching people how to get a better life. Take chances. I can only agree. But also be aware. So I have to agree with guru Hank

It's been 10 months now. Nobody ever asked us about moving to Finland to work.

Needless to say, this is only my perspective and I'm clearly not the best informed around here. That's only my experience so far.

I said..."That is why she is a professor and you are only an engineer!"

Would you stop mocking the engineers? They are the result of "natural evolution" too


Intrebati-i pe romanii de aici, intrebati-i pe alti imigranti, intrebati-i pe finlandezi. Intrebati-i si pe cei de acasa daca vor intr-adevar sa plecati. Nu-i nevoie sa-i si credeti sau sa le urmati sfaturile. Doar sa va asigurati ca nu veti cheltui banii intr-un loc unde chiar nu este atat de usor nici traiul, nici gasitul unei slujbe.
Si eu vreau sa ne intoarcem. Cumva, candva. Azi ascult Pavel Stratan, Parazitii si Vank. Si acasa ramane Romania. Aveti grija de voi
si mergeti cu Dumnezeu inainte!

Cheers!
fred

[Karhunkoski]

Some came without planning. What's even stranger is - they stayed after August 15th. That's seriously bad planning.

I reckon the guy has Keith Harris' fake arm holding that hunger sign and he makes his real money by deftly slipping his genuine left hand into peoples' bags as they pass, Trotsky's brown man-bag could well be the next target, just look at his eyes, filled with evil intent, he's a coiled spring, ready to pounce.

And how did he get Keith's fake arm? He whipped it from the changing room whilst the innocent Keith was having a sauna session with Bernie:


http://www.bernieclifton.co.uk/index.php?id_menu=11

[Hank W.]

I'll do my best not to become a Bahmu-Prigoana case

I was wondering what happened to you

[COBHC]

I saw that guy pictured and his sign read "minula on nälkä" and now its changed to "minlla on nälkä" maybe he will get it right soon.

[Hank W.]

Well, you should get a sign in Romanian saying "If you eat, then you won't be hungry?"

[Ciprian]

moikka

finish mafia

What mafia? I've never heard anything about Finnish mafia! I was thinking about this the other day actually, what would a Finnish mafia guy look like?

haha, (living) still in Oulu/Rovaniemi/some cottage in your ivory tower?!

You can find a job in finland, even if you can¨t speak finish as you wrote using CAPS .

Can you? When was the last time you looked for a job in Finland not speaking Finnish??

XX.XX.2007

keeping people who need a job away from finland.

Well yes, but there are plenty of people here in Finland already who need jobs!

yup, most of them qualified close to the bottle

I suppose a lot of ppl are working illegal in finland already,

Hmm, I'm not too sure on this one, are you? I was under the impression that the authorities are very strict and that Finnish employers are very law abinding.

check HS archive; last (2?) year(s) was an article about illegal labor in construction industry plus accounting irregularities (siphoning money out of the business, avoiding taxes, etc)

no mafia here, just usual practice

your country needs workers that¨s why the market is totally opened.

Well, I'm not exactly sure about the precise statistics of the Finnish labour market, are you? How do you know Finland has a need for any kind of labour?

you should do your homework dear; this year was announced a plan to "import" (lets say attract) nurses from Asia (Thailand, Malaysia, the likes)

other sectors? buy a subscription to HS.

[Ciprian]

Do any of you know any enterprise that would accept me even if I only know basic words&expressions in Finnish? It doesn't matter what it will be, as long as the company should be able to accept a non-finn.
Thank you for your time! (reading time)
Remus

if u're still here, might be handy to take a look at

http://www.monster.fi (check the ads in English, don't bother with the rest)
http://www.google.ie (they hired a lot over the summer + last year(s))
http://www.nokia.com (well, I guess not very active (hiring) nowadays)

http://www.someITcompany.fi, etc


if you're very good, do google; else do the rest, monster first

[Ciprian]

Do any of you know any enterprise that would accept me even if I only know basic words&expressions in Finnish? It doesn't matter what it will be, as long as the company should be able to accept a non-finn.

Remus

I have a good friend in Bucarest he is a senior engineer with the Romanian PTT with a MSc in telecoms.
His wife is a Professor of dental surgery at Bucarest medical college.

They love Finland...when Romania joined the EU he said.."Do you think it is sensible to come to Finland to find a job?"
I said "what does your wife say?"
"Oh she says we should first learn some Finnish, then find a job, then move to Finland"

I said..."That is why she is a professor and you are only an engineer!"

You must be a professor too,
pls check below how an sr engineer is doing it

well, Romanian PPT used to be stated owned for a long time, therefore IT excellence wasn't mandatory to get a good job there, but lets presume your friend is really good in Telecom/IT. in this case...

1. he shouldn't have asked "it is sensible to come to some-COUNTRY-here to find a job" (which is pretty lame IMHO, since you spend you own money in the process; risky business anyway), given the fact that companies are flying you over for the interviews and bring your family and stuff IF they hire you.

2. lets say he got _the_ job, then indeed his wife only hope would have been to: a) learn FInnish, b) get Level 3 in FI-lang, c) get some practice in the clinic. d) tadaa -> JOB

3. enough time to get (also) kids in the process


PS. I had no idea (until 2002) that one would/could fly for an interview just to see the country/city/whatever

PPS. And yeah, several Romanians did it with Nokia; came in, saw the people/HR, learned the salaries, returned safely in their Vodafone/Orange/Motorola/whatever offices in Bucharest city