Tomorrow, God willing, is the Graceful Celebration of the Birth of our Lord and Saviour; and thus is declared a Peaceful Christmastime to all, by advising devotion and to behave otherwise quietly and Peacefully, because he who breaks this peace and violates the Peace of Christmas by any illegal or improper behaviour, shall under aggravating circumstances, be guilty and punished according to what the law and statutes prescribe for each and every offence separately.
Finally, a joyous Christmas feast is wished to all inhabitants of the city.
Peace
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Re: Peace
by Slothrop » Wed Dec 24, 2003 5:09 am
Hank W. wrote:Tomorrow, God willing, is the Graceful Celebration of the Birth of our Lord and Saviour; and thus is declared a Peaceful Christmastime to all, by advising devotion and to behave otherwise quietly and Peacefully, because he who breaks this peace and violates the Peace of Christmas by any illegal or improper behaviour, shall under aggravating circumstances, be guilty and punished according to what the law and statutes prescribe for each and every offence separately.
Finally, a joyous Christmas feast is wished to all inhabitants of the city.
Yeah, but that's TURKU. It doesn't count.
Merry Xmas one and all.
"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available" (Benford's Law of Controversy)
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christmas
by lovingfather » Thu Dec 25, 2003 3:39 am
must be nice to be in a place were you can say happy christmas here its happy holidays. One must be PC not to affend those who celebrate Kwanza, hanakuka, nothing, ect
one doesn't want to many Fatwa's sent from a cave in one day
one doesn't want to many Fatwa's sent from a cave in one day
- lovingfather
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Re: christmas
by Ace » Thu Dec 25, 2003 10:53 am
longtrav wrote:must be nice to be in a place were you can say happy christmas here its happy holidays. One must be PC not to affend those who celebrate Kwanza, hanakuka, nothing, ect
one doesn't want to many Fatwa's sent from a cave in one day
FFS I wondered where that "Happy Holidays" came from. How ridiculous can you get?
- Ace
by BAT » Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:29 pm
If you celebrate Christmas (as a Christian) and someone came up to you and said "Happy Hanukkah!" would you just say "Thanks!" or would you correct them and tell them you don't celebrate Hanukkah?
Saying "Happy Holidays" is not evil, it just aims to cover a wider range of people when you don't know what holiday they are celebrating in December.
I come from a very multicultural country, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest to change my language to be courteous and consider more faiths than just Christianity. Of course, people should be able to say "Merry Christmas" if they want, and there is nothing stopping them.
Saying "Happy Holidays" is not evil, it just aims to cover a wider range of people when you don't know what holiday they are celebrating in December.
I come from a very multicultural country, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest to change my language to be courteous and consider more faiths than just Christianity. Of course, people should be able to say "Merry Christmas" if they want, and there is nothing stopping them.
- BAT
by Hank W. » Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:41 pm
OSLO, Norway (AP) -- If the Vikings had seen pictures of Santa Claus cruising the skies in a sleigh pulled by reindeer, they probably would have assumed he was catching a ride with Thor, the Norse god of thunder.
According to Viking traditions, which carry over into modern Scandinavian Jul -- or Yule -- celebrations, Thor's personal transport was a flying wagon pulled by a team of horned goats.
"The idea of St. Nicholas got very much mixed in with Thor's transport when it comes to the sled with flying reindeer," said Helge Soerheim of the Archaeological Museum in Stavanger.
Some say the idea of Father Christmas or Santa bringing gifts stems from Norse mythology, too, since the most powerful of the Viking gods, Odin, was credited with doing the exact same thing, according to the Norwegian research magazine Forskning.
Even though Christianity came to Scandinavia a millennium ago, modern celebrations of Christmas hark back to the pagan winter feast of Jul, which comes from the Norse word "Jol" meaning fun and party.
Today, Jul marks the birth of Jesus and is part of the Christian tradition, but it's still referred to by its ancient name.
"Everything about it is ancient Jul. The name, the concept, the lights in the darkness, the good food, everything but the Christianity part," said Wenche Brun, who works with the Viking Museum on northern Norway's Lofoten Islands.
Ancient Jul was celebrated on December 21, then believed to be the longest night of the year. It was easy to shift to the Christian celebration that takes place December 24.
Today, Scandinavians are overwhelmingly Christian. In Norway, for example, 86 percent of the 4.6 million people are registered members of the state Lutheran Church of Norway.
Modern Scandinavians would say they celebrate Yule, while the Vikings "drank Jul."
And a key part of "drinking Jul" -- today as in the year 1000 -- is brewing special Christmas beers.
In Norway alone there are more than 50 kinds of Juleoel, or Christmas beers, ranging in strength from 4.5 to 9.9 percent alcohol, brewed just before the holidays each year. They are darker and more flavorful than regular beers.
In Viking times, Soerheim of the archaeological museum said, people thought drinking themselves into a stupor on holiday beer and other alcoholic beverages would create a euphoric connection with supernatural forces. And failure to get drunk at a Viking feast was an insult to the host, implying that his alcohol wasn't good enough.
Because modern Jul is generally a family affair, today's Scandinavians are more moderate in their "drinking Jul."
But the old Viking toast -- "to a good new year and peace" -- still echoes in the modern Christmas wishes of the North, Soerheim said.
Even after Christianity made inroads, brewing Jul-time beer remained a serious matter. In medieval times, every farmer was required to brew Christmas beer or risk fines and worse.
"Everyone had to make two batches of Christmas beer a year, one for themselves and one for guests, or be fined three riskdollars," Olaug Flakne, 31, Norway's only female brew master, said, referring to the currency of that day.
"If they did not do it for three years in a row, their farms were taken away, and, if they were also not Christian, they were expelled from the country," she said at the brewery on the outskirts of Oslo.
In old times, Norwegians used whatever was at hand, from juniper berries to tobacco, to flavor the beers.
But under the Beer Purity Act of 1516, which was repealed in 1994 but is still heeded by Norwegian brewers today, only malt, hops, yeast and water can go into beer.
Ringnes, Flakne's employer and Norway's largest brewery, alone makes 3.3 million liters (nearly 870,000 gallons) of Christmas beer in 18 varieties.
Not everyone is happy about the connection between Christmas and the brewing of beer. In the 1960s, the Christian Sobriety Society demanded that the name Juleoel, or Jul Beer, be banned.
The national brewers' association, however, successfully countered that Jul has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity but stems from Viking times.
Other Christmastime traditions appear to have been passed down from the Vikings. Many believe the "Julenek," a sheaf of grain Norwegians place outside for the birds each Christmas, stems from the Vikings' Jul offerings to their gods. Others say it may have a later origin, such as sharing Christmas bounty with all creatures.
The Christmas goat, called Julebukk in Norway and Joulupukki in Finland, recalls pre-Christian times when Jul celebrants wore goat horns. Now, masked children depicting the Julebukk go house to house singing carols and expecting treats, much as children do on Halloween in some countries.
Another pagan belief was that Lussi, a demon woman with fiery hair, wandered the earth on the night between Dec. 12 and 13, the longest night of the year before the calendar was changed. Lussi was believed to be searching for naughty children and, like an ill-intentioned Santa Claus, might slide down a chimney to find them.
Under Christianity, December 13 became Lucia Day, a Roman Catholic tribute to St. Lucia, martyred in Sicily in 304 A.D.
And when it comes to Santa's reindeer, they should consider themselves lucky. In Scandinavia, the main place for reindeer at Christmastime is on the dinner tables of the Saami, a people who have herded reindeer above the Arctic Circle from time immemorial.
According to Viking traditions, which carry over into modern Scandinavian Jul -- or Yule -- celebrations, Thor's personal transport was a flying wagon pulled by a team of horned goats.
"The idea of St. Nicholas got very much mixed in with Thor's transport when it comes to the sled with flying reindeer," said Helge Soerheim of the Archaeological Museum in Stavanger.
Some say the idea of Father Christmas or Santa bringing gifts stems from Norse mythology, too, since the most powerful of the Viking gods, Odin, was credited with doing the exact same thing, according to the Norwegian research magazine Forskning.
Even though Christianity came to Scandinavia a millennium ago, modern celebrations of Christmas hark back to the pagan winter feast of Jul, which comes from the Norse word "Jol" meaning fun and party.
Today, Jul marks the birth of Jesus and is part of the Christian tradition, but it's still referred to by its ancient name.
"Everything about it is ancient Jul. The name, the concept, the lights in the darkness, the good food, everything but the Christianity part," said Wenche Brun, who works with the Viking Museum on northern Norway's Lofoten Islands.
Ancient Jul was celebrated on December 21, then believed to be the longest night of the year. It was easy to shift to the Christian celebration that takes place December 24.
Today, Scandinavians are overwhelmingly Christian. In Norway, for example, 86 percent of the 4.6 million people are registered members of the state Lutheran Church of Norway.
Modern Scandinavians would say they celebrate Yule, while the Vikings "drank Jul."
And a key part of "drinking Jul" -- today as in the year 1000 -- is brewing special Christmas beers.
In Norway alone there are more than 50 kinds of Juleoel, or Christmas beers, ranging in strength from 4.5 to 9.9 percent alcohol, brewed just before the holidays each year. They are darker and more flavorful than regular beers.
In Viking times, Soerheim of the archaeological museum said, people thought drinking themselves into a stupor on holiday beer and other alcoholic beverages would create a euphoric connection with supernatural forces. And failure to get drunk at a Viking feast was an insult to the host, implying that his alcohol wasn't good enough.
Because modern Jul is generally a family affair, today's Scandinavians are more moderate in their "drinking Jul."
But the old Viking toast -- "to a good new year and peace" -- still echoes in the modern Christmas wishes of the North, Soerheim said.
Even after Christianity made inroads, brewing Jul-time beer remained a serious matter. In medieval times, every farmer was required to brew Christmas beer or risk fines and worse.
"Everyone had to make two batches of Christmas beer a year, one for themselves and one for guests, or be fined three riskdollars," Olaug Flakne, 31, Norway's only female brew master, said, referring to the currency of that day.
"If they did not do it for three years in a row, their farms were taken away, and, if they were also not Christian, they were expelled from the country," she said at the brewery on the outskirts of Oslo.
In old times, Norwegians used whatever was at hand, from juniper berries to tobacco, to flavor the beers.
But under the Beer Purity Act of 1516, which was repealed in 1994 but is still heeded by Norwegian brewers today, only malt, hops, yeast and water can go into beer.
Ringnes, Flakne's employer and Norway's largest brewery, alone makes 3.3 million liters (nearly 870,000 gallons) of Christmas beer in 18 varieties.
Not everyone is happy about the connection between Christmas and the brewing of beer. In the 1960s, the Christian Sobriety Society demanded that the name Juleoel, or Jul Beer, be banned.
The national brewers' association, however, successfully countered that Jul has nothing to do with Christmas or Christianity but stems from Viking times.
Other Christmastime traditions appear to have been passed down from the Vikings. Many believe the "Julenek," a sheaf of grain Norwegians place outside for the birds each Christmas, stems from the Vikings' Jul offerings to their gods. Others say it may have a later origin, such as sharing Christmas bounty with all creatures.
The Christmas goat, called Julebukk in Norway and Joulupukki in Finland, recalls pre-Christian times when Jul celebrants wore goat horns. Now, masked children depicting the Julebukk go house to house singing carols and expecting treats, much as children do on Halloween in some countries.
Another pagan belief was that Lussi, a demon woman with fiery hair, wandered the earth on the night between Dec. 12 and 13, the longest night of the year before the calendar was changed. Lussi was believed to be searching for naughty children and, like an ill-intentioned Santa Claus, might slide down a chimney to find them.
Under Christianity, December 13 became Lucia Day, a Roman Catholic tribute to St. Lucia, martyred in Sicily in 304 A.D.
And when it comes to Santa's reindeer, they should consider themselves lucky. In Scandinavia, the main place for reindeer at Christmastime is on the dinner tables of the Saami, a people who have herded reindeer above the Arctic Circle from time immemorial.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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Hank W. - The Motorhead
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by Hank W. » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:01 pm
This explains something about Finnish partying 
"people thought drinking themselves into a stupor on holiday beer and other alcoholic beverages would create a euphoric connection with supernatural forces. And failure to get drunk at a feast was an insult to the host, implying that his alcohol wasn't good enough."
...wonder if the last applies to BYOB parties too?
"people thought drinking themselves into a stupor on holiday beer and other alcoholic beverages would create a euphoric connection with supernatural forces. And failure to get drunk at a feast was an insult to the host, implying that his alcohol wasn't good enough."
...wonder if the last applies to BYOB parties too?
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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Hank W. - The Motorhead
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by Hank W. » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:15 pm
Interestingly, now to think of it, you can also say "Happy Holidays" in Finnish. It is "Hyviä Pyhiä" ~ good holys ... I'd bet its just a shortening of 'Joulunpyhät' ~ yuleholys, but you can use it year around. A 'holiday' in Greece in Finnish isn't called a 'holy day' but rather a 'free day' or 'vacation'. Also some people denote midweek Bank holidays as 'Sundays' meaning 'nothing is open -day'.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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Hank W. - The Motorhead
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by Ace » Thu Dec 25, 2003 5:23 pm
BAT wrote:If you celebrate Christmas (as a Christian) and someone came up to you and said "Happy Hanukkah!" would you just say "Thanks!" or would you correct them and tell them you don't celebrate Hanukkah?
Saying "Happy Holidays" is not evil, it just aims to cover a wider range of people when you don't know what holiday they are celebrating in December.
I come from a very multicultural country, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest to change my language to be courteous and consider more faiths than just Christianity. Of course, people should be able to say "Merry Christmas" if they want, and there is nothing stopping them.
I'd just say happy Hanukkah and not think twice about it just like a normal Muslim or Jew would say merry Xmas in response to me saying it to them.
Im from a fairly multicultural country myself. I think this Political Correctness goes too far sometimes. The Muslims and Jews in Manchester still wish me a merry Xmas. I don't have a religion (OK officially im christian but I dont follow it and I still celebrate Xmas as do many Jews and Muslims I know). I have noticed Canada seems to lead the way with Political Correctness however. I don't think its such a good thing myself. Respect other cultures by all means but don't go overboard with it.
Stopping kids in school from celebrating Xmas and the like is a bit off key IMHO.
Anyway just my view, happy holidays
- Ace
by BAT » Thu Dec 25, 2003 11:39 pm
And Christians can get their knickers in a knot over "Merry Xmas" because the "X" takes the "Christ" out of "Christmas".
Ace, hopefully your idea that Canada leads the way in PC language comes from other sources than just from my tendency to argue that PC language isn't completely evil. (I'm not a representative of all of Canada - I'm just me.)
Stopping children from celebrating Christmas at school is a whole other matter than PC language. In my view, all religious celebrations of the students who make up a class should be observed. It won't kill the other children to learn about other religions and cultures and it still lets everyone celebrate.
Ace, hopefully your idea that Canada leads the way in PC language comes from other sources than just from my tendency to argue that PC language isn't completely evil. (I'm not a representative of all of Canada - I'm just me.)
Stopping children from celebrating Christmas at school is a whole other matter than PC language. In my view, all religious celebrations of the students who make up a class should be observed. It won't kill the other children to learn about other religions and cultures and it still lets everyone celebrate.
- BAT
by Hank W. » Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:06 am
BAT wrote:And Christians can get their knickers in a knot over "Merry Xmas" because the "X" takes the "Christ" out of "Christmas".
Here I have to take my jab, as at least those of us who did obligatory 12 years of religion in school, that "X" *is* the Christ in Christmas
.
You see, the X in Xmas did not originate as the English alphabet's X but as the symbol X in the Greek alphabet, called Chi, with a hard ch. The Greek Chi or X is the first letter in the Greek word Christos. In many manuscripts of the New Testament, X abbreviates Christos (Xristos). In ancient Christian art X and XR (Chi Ro--the first two letters in Greek of Christos abbreviate his name. As you may well see in a priest's ring : superimposed P and X (CHR in English). It is called the 'Monogram of Christ'
You can see this usage of 'X' abbreviation also in the Wycliffe etc. Bibles from the early centuries onwards. So it apparently was not all Greek to them.
Now for the issue of persons starting to get offended over a subject like this - they apparently don't even realize the Greeks have their own alphabet. Probably ending up with arguments like this one Texan Governor Ma Ferguson: Asked if Texas schoolchildren should be bilingual, Ma answered: "If English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it's good enough for the schoolchildren of Texas."
Last edited by Hank W. on Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cheers, Hank W.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.
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Hank W. - The Motorhead
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follow up
by lovingfather » Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:34 am
The X
abbreviation of 'Xmas' for 'Christmas' is neither modern nor disrespectful. The notion that it is a new and vulgar representation of the word 'Christmas' seems to stem from the erroneous belief that the letter 'X' is used to stand for the word 'Christ' because of its resemblance to a cross, or that the abbreviation was deliberately concocted "to take the 'Christ' out of Christmas." Actually, this usage is nearly as old as Christianity itself, and its origins lie in the fact that the first letter in the Greek word for 'Christ' is 'chi,' and the Greek letter 'chi' is represented by a symbol similar to the letter 'X' in the modern Roman alphabet. Hence 'Xmas' is indeed perfectly legitimate abbreviation for the word 'Christmas' (just as 'Xian' is also sometimes used as an abbreviation of the word 'Christian').
None of this means that Christians (and others) aren't justified in feeling slighted when people write 'Xmas' rather than 'Christmas,' but the point is that the abbreviation was not created specifically for the purpose of demeaning Christ, Christians, Christianity, or Christmas -- it's a very old artifact of a very different language
....... to go along with hanks comments about jul.....most "scholars" bealive christ was most likely born in spring christmas was placed over top of a pagan holiday associated with doing what pagans do......it was the church that placed holiday over pagan holidays to help "kill-off" pagan practices. at those times the church control most things including "time" such the notion of AD and BC. anyone that is non-christian is therfore "forced" to adopt the christian notion of time as we know it. it is basically a invention of the christian church. kind of intresting if you think about it....
abbreviation of 'Xmas' for 'Christmas' is neither modern nor disrespectful. The notion that it is a new and vulgar representation of the word 'Christmas' seems to stem from the erroneous belief that the letter 'X' is used to stand for the word 'Christ' because of its resemblance to a cross, or that the abbreviation was deliberately concocted "to take the 'Christ' out of Christmas." Actually, this usage is nearly as old as Christianity itself, and its origins lie in the fact that the first letter in the Greek word for 'Christ' is 'chi,' and the Greek letter 'chi' is represented by a symbol similar to the letter 'X' in the modern Roman alphabet. Hence 'Xmas' is indeed perfectly legitimate abbreviation for the word 'Christmas' (just as 'Xian' is also sometimes used as an abbreviation of the word 'Christian').
None of this means that Christians (and others) aren't justified in feeling slighted when people write 'Xmas' rather than 'Christmas,' but the point is that the abbreviation was not created specifically for the purpose of demeaning Christ, Christians, Christianity, or Christmas -- it's a very old artifact of a very different language
....... to go along with hanks comments about jul.....most "scholars" bealive christ was most likely born in spring christmas was placed over top of a pagan holiday associated with doing what pagans do......it was the church that placed holiday over pagan holidays to help "kill-off" pagan practices. at those times the church control most things including "time" such the notion of AD and BC. anyone that is non-christian is therfore "forced" to adopt the christian notion of time as we know it. it is basically a invention of the christian church. kind of intresting if you think about it....
- lovingfather
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by Ace » Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:28 am
BAT wrote:Ace, hopefully your idea that Canada leads the way in PC language comes from other sources than just from my tendency to argue that PC language isn't completely evil. (I'm not a representative of all of Canada - I'm just me.)
Give me some credit
My viewpoint comes from the many Canadians I've met and your media. Of course not having visited the country makes my opinion fairly invalid. Canada is more PC than other countries though im sure you agree! In your profession I would expect you to observe politically correct terminologies anyhow.
The X in Xmas debate
Anyone who has hangups like that should seek professional counselling - Ace
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