Yank needs residence permit-what's the quickest way?

[katleena]

BTW, for those who are looking to improve their English, In the US (and Canada and Great Britain) the word "cripple," when used to refer to people, is considered pejorative. Animals are refered to as cripple; people are disabled or have disabilities.

Oh let's not underestimate our friend Onkko here, I think that he is perfectly aware of it.

[Pursuivant]

Are they no laws or provisions for people with disabilities in Finland?

what do you expect we have - an euthanasia act of 1942? not withstanding the old legislation pertaining to war veterans theres the Laki vammaisuuden perusteella järjestettävistä palveluista ja tukitoimista 3.4.1987/380
which mandates the counties must provide certain things to people with disabilities or as the word in finnish is literally "injured" - though that is usually in speech used as the term for developmental disability vs. people been in accidents (the law isn't in the translations at finlex) but like if you have a wheelchair the county must provide transport services - you can also get tax-reducted car etc. according to certain criterias, like if you have a kid with a disability etc. not that the counties wouldn't skivvy as much as they can. a few years back there were a few horror stories the invataxis having people die in collisions when they had stupid id... erm unskilled drivers driving with the wheelchairs unfastened.

so that legislation is what onkko probably is referring to in his rants about leeching and all... its mandatory for the county to provide services.

also in the constitution and the new equality law based on a couple eu-directives theres stipulations for any "handicap" as a basis for discrimination is a criminal offence. and sign language for example is a "mother tongue" as per law... and these days if you open a bar you need to have a wheelchair-accesible toilet and all... which is silly if you have a historical building with stone steps and a 50cm door and you can't *get* in in a wheelchair but the toilet must be up to standards anyways. new building standards any public buildings like schools and such are built with the free access in mind and even apartment buildings these days. we are not quite as evolved to have braille drive-through atm's as atm's aren't drive-through

Animals are refered to as cripple; people are disabled or have disabilities.

yes well if you say to someone "rampa" in finnish the person will come whack you with their crutch as well. thought though in the usa they would be limbically challenged or something asinine like that by now.

[Pursuivant]

he is perfectly aware of it.

nice of giving the benefit of doubt for him being aware at all in the first place.

[mrshourula]

so that legislation is what onkko probably is referring to in his rants about leeching and all... its mandatory for the county to provide services.
also in the constitution and the new equality law based on a couple eu-directives theres stipulations for any "handicap" as a basis for discrimination is a criminal offence. and sign language for example is a "mother tongue" as per law... and these days if you open a bar you need to have a wheelchair-accesible toilet and all... which is silly if you have a historical building with stone steps and a 50cm door and you can't *get* in in a wheelchair but the toilet must be up to standards anyways. new building standards any public buildings like schools and such are built with the free access in mind and even apartment buildings these days. we are not quite as evolved to have braille drive-through atm's as atm's aren't drive-through

Animals are refered to as cripple; people are disabled or have disabilities.

yes well if you say to someone "rampa" in finnish the person will come whack you with their crutch as well. thought though in the usa they would be limbically challenged or something asinine like that by now.

I understand. I actually assumed there were such measures in Finland but will claim confusion caused by Onkko's rant(s)!

Well I am grateful that Onkko is willing to welcome my daughter to Finland; I was a little worried he might track her down and put her on the "last stage outta Dodge!"

And, no, we just say "differently abled."

[Karhunkoski]

I would say that Finland is fairly racist country, but the racism is well hidden. Or not so well... ask what southeastern finns like about russians.

In my opinion Onkko's writings give a good picture of what "common man" thinks. Man who normally would not say those things to foreigner (unless really drunk) but would say to friend or to work mate.

Yup, can't disagree with that.

I have tended to view the opinions expressed in some posts on this forum as more xenophobic than racist. Not to say that there aren't people with racist views in Finland (they exist in every country), but the overall impression I get about how Finns respond to non-Finns just seems to fall more in the phobic catergory.

Fair comment, there is both racism and xenophobia.

But I think the main point that Upphew (please correct me if I'm wrong), tried to get across is that these views are often both common and well hidden (perhaps discussed between workmates in Finnish, but never really mentioned in a foreign language to a foreigner). So I guess you can get one impression from an internet bulletin board, but quite a different view if you are "inside" Finland.

[Pursuivant]

well it is in finnish you can discuss these kind of matters more frankly

[msrz]

Onkko is a cripple too)))He got beaten by some foreigners that's why he is so mad)))More foreigners, more forigners!!!there's not gonna be the word FINN in 20 years:)

[Upphew]

Onkko is a cripple too)))He got beaten by some foreigners that's why he is so mad)))More foreigners, more forigners!!!there's not gonna be the word FINN in 20 years:)

I don't think Onkko is mad, he's just more vocal than most finns. And if you think calling someone cripple is bad, blame dictionary: http://www.ilmainensanakirja.fi/trans?Q ... &F=fi&T=en

[Rob A.]

Onkko is a cripple too)))He got beaten by some foreigners that's why he is so mad)))More foreigners, more forigners!!!there's not gonna be the word FINN in 20 years:)

I don't think Onkko is mad, he's just more vocal than most finns. And if you think calling someone cripple is bad, blame dictionary: http://www.ilmainensanakirja.fi/trans?Q ... &F=fi&T=en

This thread is starting to remind me of a previous one we had "extolling the virtues" of the English word,"Chinaman"...this is considered an offensive and rude expression in North America. and anyone using it would be mercilessly, sanctimoniously and ruthlessly "attacked" in a North American forum, in much the same way as some of you have "attacked" onkko...

Now the English contingent here were unapologetic about the word, "Chinaman" as it is not an offensive term in England......So my view now is that it is unwise to use this term in North America, but harmless to use it in Europe...
By the way..."Englishman" is not an offensive term in North America, though "Frenchman" is starting to push the edge a bit...as are "Spaniard", "Pole" and "Jew"....

What I think is important here is the message onkko is trying to deliver...not the precise words he is using....

And I think "intelligent" foreigners would rather hear about "reality" from people like onkko, tiwaz and pursuivant than some "sugar-coated" version of reality from the "Flower Hats"... And onkko will gradually figure out which English terms he can safely use in order to get his message across without upsetting the easily sided-tracked hypocrites who come out of the woodwork during threads like this one...

[rinso]

What I think is important here is the message onkko is trying to deliver...not the precise words he is using....

Often (not always ) the first posts of onkko and tiwaz are not offending, but give a clear view of how a group of Finns can think. It is valuable information because foreigners will experience the negative effects, but nobody will explain the reasons.
When however onkko or tiwaz are attacked, the discussion turns black and white and ends in mud slinging.

[antstar]

What I think is important here is the message onkko is trying to deliver...not the precise words he is using....

Often (not always ) the first posts of onkko and tiwaz are not offending, but give a clear view of how a group of Finns can think. It is valuable information because foreigners will experience the negative effects, but nobody will explain the reasons.
When however onkko or tiwaz are attacked, the discussion turns black and white and ends in mud slinging.

Ah i get it! when onkko or tiwas speaks its the voice of Finland BUT when anybody argues its an attack against them?

We all know the important message onkko is trying to get across - i don't want ANY foreigners here be they cripples or not!

[Tiwaz]

Ah i get it! when onkko or tiwas speaks its the voice of Finland BUT when anybody argues its an attack against them?

We all know the important message onkko is trying to get across - i don't want ANY foreigners here be they cripples or not!

When natives speak, it is voice of natives. Who make up, thankfully, huge bulk of people in country. Represent local culture and taxpayers.

And immigrants should remember this, as trying to live like you lived back home is often sure way to end up on collision course with your surroundings.

And immigrant is always outnumbered and fighting on foreign soil.

[Upphew]

Ah i get it! when onkko or tiwas speaks its the voice of Finland BUT when anybody argues its an attack against them?

We all know the important message onkko is trying to get across - i don't want ANY foreigners here be they cripples or not!

No, you don't seem to get it. When onkko or tiwas or any other native speaks it's he or her that is speaking but it is also more likely that there are other finns that think alike. You can shoot the messenger all you like, but it will only make things worse after that. There are time and place for good flamewar but I would guess that Pub would be right forum for that?

It is easier to say "we don't want you here" than "most of you are ok people, but there seems to be proportionally more bad apples among you, so we would like to think about this immigration thing and not rush anything". See the former is shorter and in finnish that is better (unless you are politician, and if you are we hate you more than foreigners! ('cause it's easier and shorter to just hate than start some kind of "dialogue"... did we come here to talk or fight? ).

[Travmies]

Ah i get it! when onkko or tiwas speaks its the voice of Finland BUT when anybody argues its an attack against them?

We all know the important message onkko is trying to get across - i don't want ANY foreigners here be they cripples or not!

I have been in this country long enough to know that much of the lack of respect towards other by particular individuals in Finland and on this forum is much to do with their lack of respect with themselves.

This is because firstly, they will never meet you personally, so it is easy fro them to say what they like. Secondly, the atmosphere of envy in Finland is translated towards a easy target which is the foreigner who may god forbid try to achieve something in Finland. And thirdly, they are just rude, nasty, anti-social and probably very sad people.

Advise: Just don’t give a @#$%, their just tossers

[antstar]

This is because firstly, they will never meet you personally, so it is easy fro them to say what they like. Secondly, the atmosphere of envy in Finland is translated towards a easy target which is the foreigner who may god forbid try to achieve something in Finland. And thirdly, they are just rude, nasty, anti-social and probably very sad people.

Advise: Just don’t give a @#$%, their just tossers

So true i have publically asked Tiwas to visit our football training i my Finnish friends practice every week, (the squad is maybe 20 of them ages25-40) and ask them personally if i am excepted and wanted. If not sport then the bar where i regularly meet them to socialise. BUT like you say they are just gob s@'ts who act brave and insult people behind the comfort of their monitors! And hide behind their individual inadequacies and short comings!

I'm sorry Travmies i cannot take your advice, because i DO give a @#$% because for me to live happily here i DO need to feel accepted and MY message to any new commers is that the avergae Finn are not represented by the likes of Tiwas, Onkko, Upphew ect