English language contractions...

[Rosamunda]

I have a couple of VIPs who bring speeches to lessons and we do some fairly intensive pronunciation work. As you suggest, the main problems are with the chunking and the stress and intonation. Finns just don't do it quite the same as we do! If you listen to some Finnish CEOs giving speeches (sometimes there are podcasts on corporate websites), you can get an idea of how excrutiatingly dull some of their speeches can be.

And loooooong words are also problematic (anything with 4 or more syllables) and then some phonemes like the /dz/ sound in project. So a /dz/ sound in a loooooong word is a major obstacle (eg: strategically). Some FInns don't do /z/ (sip/zip and peace/peas for example) but that is not a noticeable problem (except in some proper nouns, like my dog "Zelda" is frequently called Tselda etc). The "th" is also a problem (also for Swedish Finns) and /v/ is often confused with /w/

Working with speeches is fairly easy because the students can scribble notes next to certain words and draw in arrows and other hierogliphs to indicate the intonation and the pauses. And then taping and play-back helps enormously. Most Finns I have worked with tell me that they have never ever been given a pronunciation lesson before and they usually find it quite good fun and they do make instant progress.

So, doing speeches is one thing, but actually transfering the new habits into normal spoken language is a much longer process.

I'd agree with the point about the teaching schedules though. 90 mins a week is not enough to make measurable progress (especially with a group). This year a couple of my groups even "cut back" to 90 mins every two weeks
And piling on the homework doesn't help because then the absenteeism creeps up From a teaching point of view the "up-keep" stuff can be pretty unrewarding at times.

On the other hand, I sometimes struggle to keep a group going for a 3h stretch (I have had a few). Finns tend to have quite passive learning styles.... they turn up, sit down and wait for it to happen.... which can make "communicative" teaching a hard slog at times. In France almost any topic I offered to a group would provoke some serious discussion (the French just love to intellectualise EVERYTHING) whereas here getting an opinion out of some people is like drawing blood from a stone.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

So, doing speeches is one thing, but actually transfering the new habits into normal spoken language is a much longer process.

Totally, I did a pronunciation course with a great student. We did similiar stuff. The person was incredibly strong but had really bad pron. A woman who spoke like a Finnish man. And it was the same, we would do the exercises, all good. then when we just chatted at the end of the class it would all drop. When they're doing the activities they really focus but drop it in normal speech.

But I think this is a common problem with Finnish students. They see the lesson and the activities as doing a crossword puzzle or something. One student could never drop the 'keep a meeting/class/break' thing...I found a great activitiy on the net and we went through it, at the end of the class she got up and said 'that was really good! Ok, let's keep the lesson next week, see you then'.

But make them drill and they will roll their eyes and say 'it's not high school'...

I was at one place doing 60 mins once every 2 weeks...Pointless. I think a lot of companies believe they are saving money but don't see the bigger picture and realise that there is no improvement so they are actually wasting money, not saving.

I vas vorkink on a pro/j/ect with my mana/g/er is one of my all time faves! And how often do you hear it?

[Upphew]

Some FInns don't do /z/ (sip/zip and peace/peas for example) but that is not a noticeable problem (except in some proper nouns, like my dog "Zelda" is frequently called Tselda etc).

Well... in Finland your "Zelda" is pronounced as Tselda... that game has been sooo long around that it has established itself. Also Z is pronounced as Tset, more so in the past...

On the other hand, I sometimes struggle to keep a group going for a 3h stretch (I have had a few). Finns tend to have quite passive learning styles.... they turn up, sit down and wait for it to happen.... which can make "communicative" teaching a hard slog at times. In France almost any topic I offered to a group would provoke some serious discussion (the French just love to intellectualise EVERYTHING) whereas here getting an opinion out of some people is like drawing blood from a stone.

You can't just go and change your opinion! Especially if you have told it to many people. And in school there is a teacher, which you listen, no idle chatter, that leads to detention.

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

detention.

I wish we could...I really do!

[Rosamunda]

Some FInns don't do /z/ (sip/zip and peace/peas for example) but that is not a noticeable problem (except in some proper nouns, like my dog "Zelda" is frequently called Tselda etc).

Well... in Finland your "Zelda" is pronounced as Tselda... that game has been sooo long around that it has established itself. Also Z is pronounced as Tset, more so in the past...

Yes the /z/ thing is not such a big deal. The meaning is usually clear from the context. If it's Ahtisaari, then it's the Peace Prize; if it's my neighbour, then it's the price of peas.... but sometimes I do chuckle to myself. I remember having a confused discussion with one group about taxes, it went on and on and I really felt I was missing the point. Then it clicked.... taxis

[onkko]

I dont have z, d, g, f, c, b, q or x in my language. I probably can pronounce those but i rather not.
Those are letters some southern clown try to get in
Like barbecue is parpekuu, zebra is seepra, dialogi is tialoki, gamma is kamma, celsius is selsius etc

[AldenG]

I dont have z, d, g, f, c, b, q or x in my language. I probably can pronounce those but i rather not.
Those are letters some southern clown try to get in
Like barbecue is parpekuu, zebra is seepra, dialogi is tialoki, gamma is kamma, celsius is selsius etc

Tankero? Is that you?

[Pursuivant]

give tankero some lonkero and fluency is instantaneous

[onkko]

I dont have z, d, g, f, c, b, q or x in my language. I probably can pronounce those but i rather not.
Those are letters some southern clown try to get in
Like barbecue is parpekuu, zebra is seepra, dialogi is tialoki, gamma is kamma, celsius is selsius etc

Tankero? Is that you?

Yes its me

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

That was.....unique?

[onkko]

That was.....unique?

Dont you recognise many of your students from that

[Bubba Elvis XIV]

Yeah....I am on holiday. don't remind me.

[onkko]

Yeah....I am on holiday. don't remind me.

That song was tribute to Ahti Karjalainen, first politician who really @#$% up with english
So hau aar juu totai, tis is nise konversation ve have isnt it. Tankero cames from word dangerous and by knowledge it comes that Ahti Karjalainen said after a zoo sign "all animals are dangerous" that "kaikki eläimet ovat tankeroita"
Tankero came to mean all "bad" english.

[AldenG]

Ter is eefen Vikipiti artikkeli apout Tankero.

But unlike the usage in the article, I've mostly heard the word used as a direct nickname for Karjalainen himself -- and then (like Pursuivant above) as a nickname for anyone speaking or pronouncing English that way. I think of tankero-English as almost a good thing, really. It means someone has balls enough to actually use the language instead of skulking in the shadows, afraid of mispronouncing or misusing a word. (And yes, lonkero literally does help...) That's the kind of person who eventually learns to communicate comfortably in another language.

You sort of have to change the story to make it funny in English. For instance,

"Which animals did you like best, Prime Minister?"

"I tink I laikt all tee tankerous pest. Ter ver many tankerous."

Wasn't he the one they told the joke about ordering room service:

"tuu tii tuu tööti tuu"

I've always thought he was probably a very smart man who made up (or staged) many of these jokes about him himself. Whenever I hear these "quotes" of Karjalainen's, I think of the baseball player Yogi Berra and all of his supposed quotes.

Some of the best:

It's like déjà vu all over again

No one goes there any more; it's too crowded.

He's a big clog in their machine. — referring to Ted Williams (cog = gear-tooth; clog = blockage, tukko)

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

Ninety percent of this game is mental, and the other half is physical.

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.

Even Napoleon had his Watergate.

I never said half those things I said.

[AldenG]

Hey all you language teachers in Finland...

Has anybody ever tried dispensing alcoholic drinks in class while teaching English or another language?

I would bet you could even publish an academic paper on the results of such an experiment if it were carefully designed.

Are there other disinhibitory exercises or tricks you regularly use?