Experiences: Parking Fines

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network_engineer
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Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by network_engineer » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:14 pm

Hi all,

Yes, it is only 30 EUR, but it is NOT about the money.


Background:
- I received a 30 EUR parking ticket at the Hyvinkää hospital parking lot. Reason: My parking disc was set to the wrong time.

The ticket itself was marked for parking beyond the allowed time, i.e. marked as exceeding by two hours on the ticket. As I was leaving the lot, we noticed the traffic warden issuing other tickets, so we approached her and requested her to jot down our leaving time to the ticket as well, which she very kindly did. Along with that, we also have the letter from the hospital that shows the time booked for my wife. We also paid the doctor's visiting fee (käyntimaksu) at the hospital, so we had the card receipt that shows the time we paid the bill. Add three minutes to that and we can approximate the time we arrived.

Now, I dropped off a response stating that I had forgotten to set the ticket and now that I can prove that we did not overstay but that we were well under the 4 hour limit. They said the police would come over and investigate and then I should receive a decision shortly.

Question: Any chance of getting this fine waived off? Any other experiences?

Cheers.
Last edited by network_engineer on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Experiences: Parking Fines

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Pursuivant
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Pursuivant » Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:32 pm

The police should fine you 60 euros for wasting their time. :twisted:
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Upphew » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:08 am

network_engineer wrote:Question: Any chance of getting this fine waived off? Any other experiences?

They might let it slip, but probably won't, as you are supposed to mark the next half or full hour when you park, and not doing so is a reason for a fine.
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Pursuivant » Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:49 am

The thing is you weren't fined for being overtime, you were fined for breaking the rule. ;)
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by network_engineer » Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:50 am

Pursuivant wrote:The thing is you weren't fined for being overtime, you were fined for breaking the rule. ;)



Er, exactly the opposite. On a ticket with multiple options, this one is marked:

- Sallitun pysäköintinajan ylitys 2 hr
- kiekko klo 5:00


So, if I can prove that I parked there for an acceptable period of time,the fine should not apply, right?

No one ever countered their fine here???

Cheers.


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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Upphew » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:02 pm

network_engineer wrote:No one ever countered their fine here???

Only law abiding citizens here :P
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by DMC » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:45 pm

Even law-abiding people can get parking tickets. About 5 years ago I got a parking fine whilst parked in the street in Tampere. I had bought a parking ticket from a machine in the street, the ticket was correctly displayed in my car window, and when I returned I had a penalty notice on the windscreen. I sent an email to say I thought this was a mistake, as my parking ticket was time-stamped and clearly covered the time at which the parking warden wrote the penalty notice. I got a response that I should send my parking ticket and penalty notice to them. I did that and never heard any more. I never found out why the penalty notice was issued and I never got any response to officially say the fine did not have to be paid, I just never heard any more about it.


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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Pursuivant » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:48 pm

network_engineer wrote:
Pursuivant wrote:The thing is you weren't fined for being overtime, you were fined for breaking the rule. ;)

Er, exactly the opposite. On a ticket with multiple options, this one is marked:
- Sallitun pysäköintinajan ylitys 2 hr
- kiekko klo 5:00
So, if I can prove that I parked there for an acceptable period of time,the fine should not apply, right?


Ah, my bad, I read first you had no disc, but still its not the time itself, its using the disc they monitor. I mean you can drive there, seen by the warden, and they'll give you a fine if the disc is wrong.

No one ever countered their fine here???


The amount of BS involved? Without any "proof" of coming nor going times...
Last edited by Pursuivant on Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by Pursuivant » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:50 pm

DMC wrote: whilst parked in the street in Tampere.


They got their own goddamn traffic rules. The signs are valid to the next intersection. Intersection means a street. if the street has a name its a street, so how the f* is one supposed to know in winter that the street is not a street but some sort of lesser street.
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by network_engineer » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:54 pm

:D

Perhaps this whole exercise will make the thing a bit clear for me too... i.e. parking is allowed for four hours, and if I can prove that, would that be enough, even if the disc fails? If the ticket had been for wrong use of the disc, then that would be another thing altogether.

As regards proof, I had plenty, and even requested the warden to note our leaving time. In addition, my wife just reminded me that we also have another credit card receipt from a Kahvila here in . So, apart from the warden jotting down the time on the ticket, that should also help to prove the time periods. :D

Thanks all.
Last edited by network_engineer on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.


jas_rho
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by jas_rho » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:14 pm

All that proof you have just proves that you yourself were in those places at those times, but doesn't prove that your car wasn't parked there the whole time, (maybe you parked your car there the night before and had been driving around with your buddy in his car for all they know ;) ).
I am all for you getting off from paying that ticket but I don't think you have a chance. If you used the disc wrong its your fault not theirs. Back when I first moved here I didn't have that disc and just hand wrote the time I parked on paper and thought it'd be ok. Well, so much for thinking :oops: I got a ticket because I didn't mark my time. Of course I did, but it wasn't with the official parking disc, and that's retarded but still their rules so I had to pay. So if you used it incorrectly, you are still at fault. But perhaps if you raise enough heck about it and play a dumb foreigner they'll cut you a break.
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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by network_engineer » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:43 pm

jas_rho wrote:... doesn't prove that your car wasn't parked there the whole time ... been driving around with your buddy in his car for all they know


Point taken BUT I could argue that it hardly first my profile, perhaps when I was a bit younger, er, make that a LOT younger. My profile, working guy with an 19-month old at home and a very pregnant wife (which is exactly why we were there at the hospital premises in the first place). Add to that, a Thursday, mid-week, and I am yet to see a sane guy with a reasonable work-load driving around in the middle of the night just because I wanted to park my car at the hospital grounds.

Oh well, to my ears, my logic trumps their assumptions! And if they come up with something to the tune of what you mention, I will argue their sanity. :D Your post actually raises some interesting questions:

- I got the fine for the time-exceeded, but if I can prove otherwise, do they still have grounds? That is what I hope to find out.
- Is the "disc" the only means by which to indicate the time, if so, is the disc "format" specified somewhere, perhaps by law?

just hand wrote the time I parked on paper and thought it'd be ok. Well, so much for thinking :oops: I got a ticket because I didn't mark my time


Eh? The sentence contradicts. So, if I wrote a piece of clear paper my time of arrival (Saapumisaika hh:mm), it would not count?


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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by filecore » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:44 pm

jas_rho wrote:Back when I first moved here I didn't have that disc and just hand wrote the time I parked on paper and thought it'd be ok. Well, so much for thinking I got a ticket because I didn't mark my time. Of course I did, but it wasn't with the official parking disc, and that's retarded but still their rules so I had to pay. So if you used it incorrectly, you are still at fault.


My wife did the exact same thing. We'd had the car for two days and didn't yet own a disc. She parked and wrote the time and an explanation that we didn't yet have a disc onto a piece of paper - instant fine, regardless. They're quite anal retentive about their parking rules; disobey at your own peril.


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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by network_engineer » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:45 pm

Hi all,

Yeah, the kiekko is supposedly defined somewhere... or so it says here and here in greater detail. But still, I got the ticket for exceeding the time limit... let's see what happens.

Cheers.


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Re: Experiences: Parking Fines

Post by filecore » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:53 pm

network_engineer wrote:- I got the fine for the time-exceeded, but if I can prove otherwise, do they still have grounds? That is what I hope to find out.


Your logic is flawed. They don't care what sort of person you are. Any "proof" you bring forth has to be absolute - time-stamped CCTV footage, perhaps, or a reliable (read: known to the parking authorities) witness, such as another warden. Anything else is hearsay and won't be admissable.

network_engineer wrote:- Is the "disc" the only means by which to indicate the time, if so, is the disc "format" specified somewhere, perhaps by law?


I don't know if it's specified by law, but it doesn't have to be. It only has to be specified by the authority managing the parking spaces. It's a case of parking in those places indicates a willingness to agree to their terms and conditions - parking there is a contract. They say "you can only park here if you have this disc and you use it properly". Failure to do so is a breach of your implied "contract" with the parking authority, regardless of what legal basis it may also have.


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