Translation exercise...Legalese

[Rob A.]

I was reading this particular section of a government statute dealing with property taxation and I thought I would try to translate it into Finnish:

"Land, the fee of which is in the Crown, or in some person on behalf of the Crown, that is held or occupied otherwise than by, or on behalf of, the Crown, is, with the improvements on it, to be assessed in accordance with this section."

Maasto, jonka kiinteistön rajoittamaton omistus on Kruunun kanssa, tai eräs henkilö Kruunun jonkun puolesta, että on säilyttänyt tai varannut muutoin kuin Kruunun kanssa tai Kruunun jonkun puolesta on yhdessä niiden perusparrannusten kanssa olla arvioida tämän artiklan mukaan.

Any corrections or suggestions? [Even if it is full of mistakes, I'm quite pleased at how quickly I was able to come up with this.... ]

[Under Canadian law...the Crown, ...Queen Elizabeth...is the official head of state and is the ultimate "owner" of all land...subject, of course, to rights given to her subjects.]

[silk]

It is difficult to comment on your translation when the English text is unintelligible (at least to me). Maybe you could translate the English legal text into plain English and then we can tackle your Finnish translation.

[EP]

I agree with Silk. I read it and read it over and over. I felt like I am reading some present day KELA or tax office text. So not much has changed...

"Land, the fee of which is in the Crown, or in some person on behalf of the Crown, that is held or occupied otherwise than by, or on behalf of, the Crown, is, with the improvements on it, to be assessed in accordance with this section."

Maasto, jonka kiinteistön rajoittamaton omistus on Kruunun kanssa, tai eräs henkilö Kruunun jonkun puolesta, että on säilyttänyt tai varannut muutoin kuin Kruunun kanssa tai Kruunun jonkun puolesta on yhdessä niiden perusparrannusten kanssa olla arvioida tämän artiklan mukaan.

You have translated it from uncomprehensible English into uncomprehensible Finnish. Just trying to put the Finnish one into a more "modern" wording:

Maa, joka kuuluu Kruunulle tai henkilölle, joka edustaa Kruunua, ja joka on jonkun muun kuin Kruunun, tai Kruunun edustajan, hallinnassa, on parannuksineen arvioitava tämän artiklan mukaan. (Is section an articla?)

[silk]

Maa, joka kuuluu Kruunulle tai henkilölle, joka edustaa Kruunua, ja joka on jonkun muun kuin Kruunun, tai Kruunun edustajan, hallinnassa, on parannuksineen arvioitava tämän artiklan mukaan. (Is section an articla?)

This sounds pretty good.

[Rob A.]

Thanks all....Hint taken....I guess I'm always hopeful, but I'll try to keep it "toned-down"...

The only word I thought I probably should have defined was "fee"...which, in English "legalese", typically will mean a fee simple interest in real estate, which is the most extensive interest a person or company can hold in land...and I think this is essentially the same in all English speaking countries.... A Finnish-English dictionary seemed to translate this as...kiinteistön rajoittamaton omistus...though I suspect this is more a definition than an actual translation....

The word, articla, might be Finnish legalese, but I'm not sure....

[silk]

The word, articla, might be Finnish legalese, but I'm not sure....

Artikla, from Swedish, I assume.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/artikla

[silk]

Rob, here is your next translation exercise, from British Columbia Law and Equity Act.

"Where an action is brought on a bond for payment of the money secured by a mortgage or performance of its covenants or where an action of ejectment is brought by a mortgagee or his or her heirs, personal representatives or assigns for the recovery of the possession of mortgaged land, and no suit is pending concerning the foreclosing or redeeming of the mortgaged land, if the person who has the right to redeem the mortgaged land appears and becomes a defendant in the action and at any time, pending the action, pays to the mortgagee or, in the case of the mortgagee's refusal, brings into court where the action is pending all the principal money and interest due on the mortgage, and all costs spent in any proceeding on the mortgage, the money for principal, interest and costs to be calculated by the court, the money so paid to the mortgagee or brought into court is in full satisfaction and discharge of the mortgage, and the court must and may discharge the mortgagor or defendant from the mortgage accordingly and must and may, by the rules of the court, compel the mortgagee, at the expense of the mortgagor, to assign, surrender or reconvey the mortgaged land and the estate and interest that the mortgagee has in it, and deliver up all deeds, evidences and writings in the mortgagee's custody relating to the title of the mortgaged land to the mortgagor who has paid or brought the money into the court, the mortgagor's heirs, personal representatives or to the person the mortgagor appoints for that purpose."

[Rip]

I felt like I am reading some present day KELA or tax office text.

I think you're unfair towards KELA and tax office. I'd also say that the Finnish law texts have relatively easy to read, although some of them have poor structure when you go from one paragraph to another.

That as a rule, then there are exceptions. If somebody actually understands the title of this government decree without drawing flowcharts for a few minutes, he should do well in a Mensa test. The reverse is not necessarily so.

And I am talking about native Finns.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/2004/20040778

[Rob A.]

....That as a rule, then there are exceptions. If somebody actually understands the title of this government decree without drawing flowcharts for a few minutes, he should do well in a Mensa test. The reverse is not necessarily so.

And I am talking about native Finns.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/2004/20040778

Awww...that's easy....But with my level of Finnish, of course, I can't get the precise wording....basically it's as follows:

"The coming-into-effect of a law changing a cabinet (inner government) decree regarding rural development by allowing the change of a cabinet decree which allowed a change of a government decree which allowed a change to a cabinet decree changing a coming-into-effect law."....I might have forgot a muuttamisesta....

I would say that, Valtioneuvoston asetus is equivalent to an "Order-in-Council" at least in the English-style parliamentary system.... a decree of the "executive" portion of the government-of-the-day...typically the Prime Minister, or delegate, and some of the key cabinet ministers....

Hey, some of you guys just haven't spent enough time around bureaucrats and lawyers... that's all...

[Pursuivant]

you need to ring your pigs,

4 §
Siat ovat kirren maasta lähdettyä rengastettavat, jotteivät nurmia nurin tonkisi; ja on siltavoudin pidettävä siitä tarkka vaari. Ottakoon myös kiinni taikka merkitköön kaikki ne siat, jotka rengastamattomina tapaa, ja lunastakoon omistaja ne häneltä takaisin, kahdella markalla kunkin. Jos omistaja ei tahdo niitä lunastaa, haastakoon siltavouti hänet Oikeuteen, ja maksakoon omistaja sitten siltavoudille kaksinkertaisesti joka siasta. Jos siltavouti sen laiminlyö, vetäköön sakoa talarin; ja rengastamattomat siat saa kiinni ottaa kuka tahtoo ja voipi, ennen muita se, joka tiluksiltansa ne tapaa ja vahinkoa kärsii, ja olkoon ottajalla sama oikeus kuin siltavoudilla.


and you can't take s***t
10 §

Talonpoika älköön talosta muuttaessansa viekö tilalta tuohia, aidaksia, turpeita, polttopuita, hirsiä eikä mitään muutakaan, mitä hän talon tiluksilta on ottanut; ei myöskään sontaa. Jos hän sen tekee, vetäköön sakkoa niinkuin 10 luvussa sanotaan, ja tuokoon takaisin mitä on vienyt. Älköön myöskään ennen lähtöpäivää tilalta viekö eläimiä tahi eläimenruokaa, kymmenen talarin sakon uhalla. Jos hänellä, lähtöpäivän tultua, on jälellä eläimenruokaa, jonka aikoo myydä, tarjotkoon sitä maanomistajalle tahi jälkeentulijallensa. Olkoon talonpoika myös velvollinen jättämään taloon nen lukot, jotka ovat ovissa ja seinissä kiinni, niin myös pellit, akkunat, pitkän pöydän ja lavitsan, seinässä kiinni olevat penkit ja vuoteensijat sekä muun kiinteän, aittaan, kotaan, latoon, talliin ja navettaan kuuluvan sisustuksen. Jos hän niistä jotakin viepi pois, vetäköön jokaisesta sakkoa kaksi markkaa ja toimittakoon sen takaisin.