Imperfekti Verb Type #3 concenant gradations??

[Phil]

For verb type #3 in the imperfekti tense (and some other tenses), there are some special concenant gradations. What are they??

Here is an example:

kävellyt - if I didn't know the gradations, I would have put kävelenyt or something.

Also, I think 'sn' turns into 'ss' or something like that.

...what's the rule for this?

Thanks!

[Guest]

Positiivinen Imperfekti: *kävelin*

Negatiivinen Imperfekti: *en kävellyt* or *emme kävelleet*

Positiivinen Perfekti: *olen kävellyt*

Negatiivinen Perfekti: *en ole kävellyt* or *emme ole kävelleet*

Positiivinen Pluskvamperfekti: *olin kävellyt* or *olimme kävelleet*

Negatiivinen Pluskvamperfekti: *en ollut kävellyt* or *emme olleet kävelleet*

These are all active forms.
*kävellä* - *walking* (:?: bad example) in passiivi form would be *kävelty*


Astevaihtelutaulukko (this can also go the other way around, but only with verbtypes IV and VI) (and mind that these changes also happen in nouns):
kk : k
pp : p
tt : t
k : -
p : v
t : d
nk : ng
mp : mm
lt : ll
nt : nn
rt : rr
k : j (for example: särkeä - särjen)
k : v (for example in noun: suku - suvun.

[Great Scott]

WTF? Do you guys really learn this stuff in courses nowadays? I dunno, looks awfully complicated to me. Reminds me of when I studied Latin and had to remember what declention a noun has before I could sort out the cases. Do you really think about all that stuff before you speak or is it just to help in learning the grammar? I haven't got the foggiest about all that stuff. I'm a student of the parroting method where I just try and mimic the natives....

[Phil]

WTF? Do you guys really learn this stuff in courses nowadays? .......... I'm a student of the parroting method where I just try and mimic the natives....

It definitely helps me. They teach Finnish like they're teaching a math class, which is perfect for me. I need formulas and "cheat sheets" to help me learn.

Maybe you're one of these "audio" type learners, you can simply hear things and start to pick them up. I wish I was able to do that.

Also, you work in a restaurant, right? You have had a lot more forced practice than us IT people who speak English everyday in Nokia.

[Phil]

Negatiivinen Imperfekti: *en kävellyt* or *emme kävelleet*

Yah, this is what I'm looking for. Why does kavelnyt turn into kavellyt?


Verb type 3 is one of those exception-verbs.
Because apparently Finnish people have problems -or just don't like- pronouncing the *ln* combination, they turned it into *ll* to ease up the pronounciation.

[Great Scott]

Ahhh, I get I Phil. In neurolinguistic talk we would say that you are left-brained. Incidentally if that's true you should try studying with as many lights on as possible. You might also really love Latin.

I feel for you working in an all-English enviornment. I spent 2 years in an English-speaking kindergarten when I first moved to Finland. Didn't help my skills much at all. I wish you luck. I wasn't criticizing your methods at all (hope that was clear) was just really confused about the though process you would have to use in order to speak!

Best of luck, hope it comes easily to you in time....