Where to find Subbuteo?

[otyikondo]

Re those photos. An alarming number of players seem to use a formation where they place their entire team on the shooting line. Can't say we ever did anything like that, but always set up the players in something approaching 3-2-5 or 4-3-3- or 4-4-2 with two halves out wide, and tried as much as possible to preserve "shape".

What's the purpose of using something as artificial as that, and also having a relatively long distance to flick players? It looks as though one kid is about to attempt to make contact with a ball in the opposing area using a player lined up on his own shooting line, well inside his own half. Seems daft to me. Half the point of the flicking anyway was to make sure that AFTER you'd made contact with the ball the player didn't end up either on the floor or half a mile offside and therefore next to useless. Same logic applies as in snooker.

[sammy]

Hi Sammy,

I was born in 1966 and started to play in 1976, but I have to say I don't remember any comics (I red them a lot) where would have been Subbuteo-advertisement. I remember Subbuteo-advertisement on TV and that's why I also started to play. I don't have old pictures in digitalised form, but here is something from our tournaments from last years http://gallery.subu.fi/main.php

I do have some papercopies of "Subbuteolehti" which was published in 1981-1996. It was a Subbuteo-magazine which included stories about both football and Subbuteo. The writer, Seppo Paakkinen was also the chairman of the Finnish Subbuteo association during that time.

Hi, I was born in ´68 and definitely remember that a few of my early 70's comic magazines has Subbuteo ads, because I used to wonder where the heck one might come across a football game like that (the only ones I had ever seen were the Stiga-type thingies) If it happens that I find them (it's possible that the mags still exists somewhere in my parents' house) I will scan them and let you know. I can't remember the tv ads at all...

[hönkki]

Re those photos. An alarming number of players seem to use a formation where they place their entire team on the shooting line. Can't say we ever did anything like that, but always set up the players in something approaching 3-2-5 or 4-3-3- or 4-4-2 with two halves out wide, and tried as much as possible to preserve "shape".

What's the purpose of using something as artificial as that, and also having a relatively long distance to flick players? It looks as though one kid is about to attempt to make contact with a ball in the opposing area using a player lined up on his own shooting line, well inside his own half. Seems daft to me. Half the point of the flicking anyway was to make sure that AFTER you'd made contact with the ball the player didn't end up either on the floor or half a mile offside and therefore next to useless. Same logic applies as in snooker.

Sorry for not writing sooner. Nowadays we play with 2 different styles here in Finland. In the "finnish style" (or rules) we don't use polish in the bases of the figures and so the figures don't slide so much. Then the formations are something like 3-2-5 or 4-3-3- or 4-4-2. On the other hand, we play also with the "international style" (or rules) where it is allowed to use polish and then the figures will easily slide from shootingline to shootingline and touch the ball gently. The polish change the whole tactics of the game and we have learned to place the entire (or almost entire) team on the shootingline when defending. The photos are from international rules games.

In the international rules it is also allowed to play fast without waiting the defender. In the finnish rules it is the opposite, the attacker needs to wait the blockingflick of the defender.

One important difference are also the "spinflicks" (player goes around another player). In the finish rules games they are quite usual, because of lack of the polish. In the international rules games spinflicks are very rarely seen and their importance for the game is very marginal.

If it happens that I find them (it's possible that the mags still exists somewhere in my parents' house) I will scan them and let you know. I can't remember the tv ads at all...

ok, thanks

[otyikondo]

Re those photos. An alarming number of players seem to use a formation where they place their entire team on the shooting line. Can't say we ever did anything like that, but always set up the players in something approaching 3-2-5 or 4-3-3- or 4-4-2 with two halves out wide, and tried as much as possible to preserve "shape".

What's the purpose of using something as artificial as that, and also having a relatively long distance to flick players? It looks as though one kid is about to attempt to make contact with a ball in the opposing area using a player lined up on his own shooting line, well inside his own half. Seems daft to me. Half the point of the flicking anyway was to make sure that AFTER you'd made contact with the ball the player didn't end up either on the floor or half a mile offside and therefore next to useless. Same logic applies as in snooker.

Sorry for not writing sooner. Nowadays we play with 2 different styles here in Finland. In the "finnish style" (or rules) we don't use polish in the bases of the figures and so the figures don't slide so much. Then the formations are something like 3-2-5 or 4-3-3- or 4-4-2. On the other hand, we play also with the "international style" (or rules) where it is allowed to use polish and then the figures will easily slide from shootingline to shootingline and touch the ball gently. The polish change the whole tactics of the game and we have learned to place the entire (or almost entire) team on the shootingline when defending. The photos are from international rules games.

In the international rules it is also allowed to play fast without waiting the defender. In the finnish rules it is the opposite, the attacker needs to wait the blockingflick of the defender.

One important difference are also the "spinflicks" (player goes around another player). In the finish rules games they are quite usual, because of lack of the polish. In the international rules games spinflicks are very rarely seen and their importance for the game is very marginal.

If it happens that I find them (it's possible that the mags still exists somewhere in my parents' house) I will scan them and let you know. I can't remember the tv ads at all...

ok, thanks

Thanks for your reply. I must say it sounds very much like tekstiiliurheilu gone mad. By tampering with the original properties of the game, they make it less reminiscent of football and more reminiscent of target shooting. What possible reason could they have had for mucking about with the rules in that way? In most sports where there are fundamental changes, they are at least geared to making the sport more TV-friendly or viewer-friendly (i.e. increasing the number of scoring incidents or guaranteeing a result within a given time-slot), but this seems completely perverse.

But different strokes for different folks, I guess. Maybe there's a market niche for chess played with pawns that have AK-47s and knights that ride Harleys.

P.S. The swerve flick to round a blocking player (and possibly even pass the ball sideways) is an important skill element, and to remove it hardly seems a step forward. Stick with your rules and tell the rest of the world to fLIck off!

[MagicJ]

This article about Subbuteo was in the Grauniad today

The first comment by Basilbranch is quite amusing and the article also points to England winning the world cup in 2008

[otyikondo]

Great anecdote! Perhaps if I had discovered stoned Subbuteo I could have avoided [my mate's team] Spurs winning our leagues quite so often. Glad to see, too, the general derision felt for stands and floodlights, which I could never afford, and which always seemed a waste of space anyway. The thought that some of my teams "could be worth £100s" is mouthwatering... Coventry City 1987 Cup-Winners, anyone?*


*Bought when using my son as a Subbuteo punch-bag in my Masters Series comeback phase...

[sammy]

I'd wager that some of the Subbuteo enthusiasts here would be interested to see pictures of possible old Subbuteo sets, advertisements, etc from Finland... as mentioned in an earlier message I distinctly remember that Subbuteo was advertised in Finnish comics at least in the early/mid 70's - I wonder if any of your association members should have copies left; I did not manage to find any of my old Tarzan mags - although it must be added I still have my Tarzan club membership pass ("viidakkopassi") somewhere...

At least I would be interested in those old ads, for the sense of nostalgia

Hi Sammy,

I was born in 1966 and started to play in 1976, but I have to say I don't remember any comics (I red them a lot) where would have been Subbuteo-advertisement. I remember Subbuteo-advertisement on TV and that's why I also started to play. I don't have old pictures in digitalised form, but here is something from our tournaments from last years http://gallery.subu.fi/main.php

I do have some papercopies of "Subbuteolehti" which was published in 1981-1996. It was a Subbuteo-magazine which included stories about both football and Subbuteo. The writer, Seppo Paakkinen was also the chairman of the Finnish Subbuteo association during that time.

Hi - in case you're still around... (I haven't been )... finally found some of my old comics and -ta-dah- one of them did have a Subbuteo ad. Voilà, from "Tarzanin poika" 1975

[hönkki]

Thank's Sammy ! Those pictures are a real find. It was worth to visit here after so many months. By the way, if you watch football European championship tournament on YLE's channel, you should see some subbuteo-teams in studio on the tacticstable. Or that's what they told me at least ...

I'm still playing if someone is interested to have a few games. The club is nowadays in Helsinki in the district of Hermanni.

[MagicJ]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northe ... r-subbuteo