Must Learn Finnish! Please Help.

[Cory]

Where do you live, btw? Yeah, I know you said Canada but you never now.. one of us Canadian's on this forum may know someone who knows someone near you who could partner up with you on skype or in person.

I live in central Alberta. Near Red Deer. Travel to Calgary weekly. I have looked online and I know there are some Finnish organizations in Edmonton and Calgary.

I don't know about Edmonton but I do know, as I mentioned before, that there is a good sized Finnish community living there. They do speak real Finnish. With a little digging for names and numbers, you should be able to find some contacts. Maybe to pop in for an hour or two during a trip to the city. From those I've met while there a few years ago, they are a friendly lot. You might want to start with the Finnish Lutheran Church.

[Evertony]

http://www.listenlive.eu/finland.html

Listen to YLE X, Radio Suomi a few hours a day, it helps massively. You wont't learn the language this way of course, but you will really familiarise yourself with it. More so than living here because people speak Finnish with local dialects and usually too fast (atleast in the beggining) for you to catch on. Those radio stations are like book finnish, they speak almost perfect and you can hear most words. They have phone-ins too so you can hear normal spoken finnish from various different areas. I found this a great way of learning. Also, I found the Leila White book disappointing, there is another book out there done by a Finnish lady living and working in London translating for the embassies and I find that the best out of all the Finnish study books/courses I have seen.

[Sami-Is-Boss]

Also, you have to be patient- you need to speak and listen to a language a bloody lot to get familiar enough with it that the hours of grammatical study clicks into place. Listening will be a bugger until you've had a lot of practice, but I know how easy it is to get depressed that you'll never learn this language- keep it up, and whatever you're doing, it will help. Good luck, and don't be put off!

[Kutittaa]

The guy above me is an oppressed moron who is very pissed off at Finns for not treating him like royalty. If you look at all of his previous posts you will see that he has done nothing but talk !"#¤% to other people, make incorrect statements, lie and flame people on the forums who do not agree with him.

Learning Finnish like any language is definitely possible. There is a sort of maths to the whole thing.

It's more-or-less: Time + Effort - Memory retention = Speed
For example:

If you come here and jump into a course you are spending a lot of time learning, a lot of effort then minus your memory retention. Going to school constantly for 2 years one could definitely learn enough Finnish to be able to survive on one's own here. Hell you could probably make do with just a year. Some of course make do without knowing ANY Finnish. Though it would certainly, without a single doubt make their lives quite a bit harder when it comes to having to actually interact with Finns. There is no real rule of thumb for private vs. public courses. Normally you have to do public ones unless you can get Työkkäri to accept your private course. Though good luck doing that... One can always do both though. Public courses are in pretty bad condition but the teaching should be pretty good just as long as the teacher doesn't take any crap from people like the idiot above me.

In my opinion it's bad to force a Finn to speak your language regardless of him/her knowing it or not. As it has been said a million times. Finns may know how to speak English but whether they will want to is another problem entirely.

If you were to not take courses here, public or private. Then your learning time would be a lot lower, your effort would surely be a lot less because you would be working or something else. Then minus your memory retention which is less when you are not being repetitious. This means that it will probably take literally DOUBLE the time. I have seen some people here who have spent only 2 years, who can more or less speak Finnish well enough to get their point across, understand most of everything and definitely get through day-to-day life. Things like going to the doctor are still a bit of a task for them but if one kindly asks the doctor to speak in a bit more 'foreign friendly' terms one shouldn't have any problems.

Learning Finnish is possible. There are thousands of people who attribute proof to that. The poster above me is plain and simple just a troll with a vendetta towards everyone in this country. In retrospect he should piss off back to the sandy cave he was undoubtedly born in. I for one, if I was him would thank my lucky Allahs for the generosity that Finland let him in, in the first place. Let alone the mods who let him post his flaming garbage in these forums. Then again, you can lead an 'aasi' to water, but you can't make it drink.

The rate at which you learn Finnish will ultimately depend entirely on your determination and seriousness.
Some learn ridiculously quickly. Others don't know a thing after 10 years. Some unfortunately are born speaking another language that is so different from Finnish (Chinese, Zulu, Vietnamese etc.) that they will probably NEVER be able to speak proper Finnish. Or at least in remotely the kind of a way a Finn could simply because their pronunciation is different and they hear sounds differently.

Your quest of learning Finnish is up to you. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, especially this idiot above me who is crying out for attention so badly.
Learning Finnish isn't impossible but it's darn hard, and that just makes it all the more rewarding in the end. Like all things there is a learning curve.

[Pursuivant]

Are there normal people who learnt Finnish language?
Yes, there are. Majority of those

are not iranians

[laciethier]

Well I can say, I just spent an entire month creating a +200 document on the Finnish language. It has everything from basic vocabulary, to grammer rules, and then basc conversations. It is formatted specifically to my learning styles and I spend alot of time working with it. I spent hours researching and gathering resources for the Finnish language. So I would say I am pretty darn determined to learn this language. I listen to Finnish radio almost everyday. Finns speak so freaking fast! Haha! I can imagine myself in the future having to concentrate on specific words because they are being said so fast. Being that I mostly speak English back at home, I have found that Finnish is not as complex as English. When listening to the radio I find that sentence structures are all fairly similar and I can pick up on the most used conversational pieces. This may be too early to say because I am at a novice level, but Finns seem to speak in an intelligent manner. There doesn't seem to be many "filler" words. Which are words I find we use back at home in Canada. For example; some of us say the words "like", "and", "so", etc. numerous times in a short amount of sentences during conversation. I haven't noticed this much when listening to the radio and watching tv interviews online. Also, I find that Finns take the time to think about how they answer questions, as opposed to in Canada where people talk just to talk. Again these are just observations of a person who hasn't been immersed in the culture. Listening is really making a difference. I think specifically because my brain likes auditory stimulus. I will have Finnish radio in the backround while I am working on other stuff, because I think subconcious knowledge is just as important as concious. I think that is helping too. I notice though I am weak in sentence structure and grammer. i need to practice this more and more. I have been researching for online exams to practice. Also I was thinking of ordering some story books in the Finnish Language, so I can practice reading in Finnish. It really is a beautiful language and I am so excited to evolve my skills.

Anyways, keep the suggestions coming. I really appreciate it. Everything is helpful no matter how small or big. I have to learn this language. Not learning it is just not an option for me.

Thanks everybody. Hope you are all staying warm in the wonderfully cold weather.

Laci

[Jukka Aho]

This may be too early to say because I am at a novice level, but Finns seem to speak in an intelligent manner. There doesn't seem to be many "filler" words. Which are words I find we use back at home in Canada. For example; some of us say the words "like", "and", "so", etc. numerous times in a short amount of sentences during conversation. I haven't noticed this much when listening to the radio and watching tv interviews online.

See here.

Also I was thinking of ordering some story books in the Finnish Language, so I can practice reading in Finnish.

Some bookstores:

• Akateeminen kirjakauppa (delivers abroad, has a separate online store for ebooks)
• Suomalainen kirjakauppa (delivers hard-copy books to EU countries only, has a separate online store for ebooks)
• Booky.fi (delivers abroad)
• eLibris Bookshop (ebooks only)
• Ellibs Bookstore (ebooks only)
• Elisa Kirja (ebooks only)
• Levykauppa Äx (music, movies, books, delivers abroad)
• Antiquator (used bookstore, delivers abroad)
• Adlibris.com (no delivery to abroad)
• BookPlus(no delivery to abroad)
• Rosebud (no delivery to abroad)

The delivery costs for hard-copy books may be rather steep so maybe you’d want to try out the stores that offer ebooks.

Do you have an ebook reader or a tablet, such as Apple iPad?

If so, many Finnish magazines (ranging from glossy women’s magazines to car and technology review mags to crafts & hobbies mags), newspapers and tabloids have electronic versions available which have exactly the same content laid out in exactly the same way as the print version. If you own an iPad, many of those have their own reader app in Apple’s AppStore. Some of them offer freebie sample issues which you can download after installing the free app. There are also some free magazines and papers published in the same format. (You could read most of these on a computer screen as well, of course, but that’s not as convenient...)

Additionally, there are many out-of-copyright, public domain ebooks. They’re older material, of course, but some of them might be considered Finnish classics. You can find them on Project Gutenberg. (Some of this material is also readily available in Apple’s iBooks app, free of charge.)

If you’re looking for anything in particular or would like some assistance in finding certain types of books or certain types of magazines etc., just keep the questions coming.

[canadianchick]

Laci,

Keep in mind that the Finnish radio you are listening to is probably spoken in dialect, so there are words that you actually might know but maybe won't recognize when they are spoken, since Finns don't speak like the write. For example, depending on the dialect, "Minä" when spoken can sound like "mä" "ma" "mie" etc etc. (think of Newfoundlanders and how difficult it can be to understand them although they are speaking english because they have their own words and slang!) I'm Canadian and I've been in Finland almost a year now. I have been studying via language classes (which ARE worth the time and money, despite what some people on here are trying to tell you), that help me with reading writing and understanding grammar structure. It is true, without a real Finn to practice with, you probably won't become fluent and it will take a long long time to do, especially if you are not IN Finland, but don't be discouraged, you're off to a running start and if you keep at it, you'll get there eventually! Try going on some pen pal websites and finding someone from Finland to exchange with, maybe even skype with.

Best wishes
B

[kalmisto]

...It is true, without a real Finn to practice with, you probably won't become fluent and it will take a long long time to do...

In Helsinki it is possible to practice every Monday at 7pm :
http://cafelinguainhelsinki.wordpress.com/

[canadianchick]

That doesn't help her if she's in Canada, not Helsinki bud!!

[kalmisto]

That doesn't help her if she's in Canada, not Helsinki bud!!

No, it doesn´t help her, but it might help someone living in Helsinki who does not know where to practice his/her Finnish.

[laciethier]

I have a new question...
I have been practicing my Finnish skills and keep coming across a few things.

What is the difference between using "siita" and "sen"? I keep finding sentences the use these words for it and that. They sentences will use both words for one.
What is with the "etta"? I keep seeing it, everytime I translate, it looks like I don't even need the word. Confusing.

Can somebody please enlighten me?

Thank you lovelies.

[AldenG]

I have a new question...
I have been practicing my Finnish skills and keep coming across a few things.

What is the difference between using "siita" and "sen"? I keep finding sentences the use these words for it and that. They sentences will use both words for one.
What is with the "etta"? I keep seeing it, everytime I translate, it looks like I don't even need the word. Confusing.

Can somebody please enlighten me?

Thank you lovelies.

Että is like "that" in English. It's one of the closest correspondences between an English word and a Finnish word that you'll find. (Even so, "that" has other meanings that että does not.) But in English it can often be omitted where it is required in Finnish.

Luulen, että hän tulee.
I believe that he will come.
I believe he will come.

But (X) Luulen hän tulee would be some of the worst kind of immigrant pidgin Finnish

Siitä is the"se+sta" case, or elative case.
Älä välitä siitä. Don't pay attention to it.
En pidä siitä. I don't like it.
En pidä siitä, että hän tulee. I don't like it that he is coming.
(Here you can't omit the "that", though some people would leave out the "it".)

Sen is the accusative or genitive case.
Lopetan sen nyt. I'm going to stop/end it now. ("It" being something mentioned a moment ago. Often the sen would be omitted.)
Sen aika on ohi. Its (possessive) time is past.


Välitä and pidä simply require the elative, or siitä, for these meanings. Lopetan requires accusative, or sen. Other forms of se would change the meaning of the phrase to something else. So the meaning isn't really in the verb or in the case used on se or on any other pronoun or noun -- the meaning is in the combination of a particular verb with a particular case.

It's even more specific than that. If you were using command form, as in Lopeta se, then you no longer use the sen form but the se form instead. But that may be getting ahead of where you are at the moment.

That's why you have to learn the phrases to get anywhere in any reasonable amount of time. Learning the verbs and the cases separately will cause you abundant delay and confusion.

[AldenG]

Se is properly"it" (sometimes also "he" or "she").

Tuo is "that" as in "that thing" or "Give me that."

Sometimes people use se and its forms like tuo and its forms, as you have noticed.

Then there is the phrase:

Se siitä.

...meaning "enough about that," literally "It about it."

[Jukka Aho]

So the meaning isn't really in the verb or in the case used on se or on any other pronoun or noun -- the meaning is in the combination of a particular verb with a particular case.

So we’re talking about a grammatical concept known in Finnish as rektio, aka case government, which is really quite similar to the English phrasal verbs (see here as well.)

Finnish dictionaries often employ the pronouns joku and joka, inflected in the correct case, as a stand-in for the word which is “case-governed” by the verb... as in pitää jostakin (the elative; “to like somebody”), which has a different meaning to pitää (jotakin) jossakin (the inessive; “to keep/hold (something) in somewhere”), which is yet different from pitää (jotakin) jonakin (the essive; “to regard (something/someone) as something”).

Pidän Madonnasta. = “I like Madonna.”
Pidän (säilytän) Madonnaa tynnyrissä. = “I keep (store) Madonna in a barrel.”
Pidän Madonnaa hyvänä laulajana. = “I regard Madonna as a good singer.”

Not only verbs but also nouns and adjectives are subject to case government — see here for some examples.

There is a book called Tarkista tästä — suomen kielen rektioita suomea vieraana kielenä opiskeleville which lists the most useful Finnish rektios.

That's why you have to learn the phrases to get anywhere in any reasonable amount of time. Learning the verbs and the cases separately will cause you abundant delay and confusion.

Learning actual, complete phrases is useful in that they’re “mnemonic”; easier to remember (and probably more useful) than mere grammatical rules in isolation. Naturally, you need some basic grammar to make any use of them, but after you have the basic grammar under your belt, it should be easier to pick up a phrase whose meaning you already know and just change the words in it — mechanically inflecting them in the same cases — rather than trying to “reason” about it.

Here’s a link to the Mnemosyne thread again: using a software program for “spaced repetition” and collecting the phrases yourself could be helpful to the OP.

I think this thread should be moved to the Kielikoulu section...