Warning for people living in/near Turku

[Pursuivant]

I wish hotels would provide little pamphlets in their rooms warning tourists not to increase the problem by handing out money.

No, thats racism. Tourists come to enjoy the multicultural Helsinki, why haven't you embraced multiculturalism? Vote the Greens!

[AldenG]

Time for the pepper spray! How's that for acknowledgment?

LOL! I like it. It might come to that if they are too forward or frightens a mother with her children.

Sounds like a recipe for getting ambushed and knifed or kneecapped on your next time through the same area.

[CarmenfromTexas]

Forgot to add I found a way to enjoy living in the most expensive areas of Helsinki during the summer time and not pay a penny.

Don't give ideas to my cheapskate company

It's a little iffy in the winter time but the view is fabulous.

No more paying MeriRastilla Camp grounds 23 euros a day. lol

I'm sure they had paid their parking fee...

I truly was wondering about this when I looked at the photos again and saw the parking fee sign. Can't say either way. I wished I had looked for the parking receipt in the windshield.

I wish hotels would provide little pamphlets in their rooms warning tourists not to increase the problem by handing out money.

No, thats racism. Tourists come to enjoy the multicultural Helsinki, why haven't you embraced multiculturalism? Vote the Greens!

I'm just a red necked, uncouth hayseed. I haven't grasped the sophisticated continental ability to appreciate a criminal subculture which thinks of me as cannon fodder.* My bad.



*Hypersensitive disclaimer for hypersensitive readers: Yes, I know there are many wonderful, law abiding Romanians and Bulgarians. I've been to both countries and liked them and their warmhearted peoples very much! I am only speaking of criminals.

[ywetka]

hopefully, Finland will get rid of them soon... I'm very used to their acts, gypsies in our country are not only aggresive but also usually send their small children to beg... if they ask you for money and you ignore them, they throw a stone at you or they spit on you. The problem was ignored for looong time thank to all liberals and 'human rights' activists, that the situation is out of control today - they steal everything, they even steal dogs from people's gardens and they eat them! They kill, they rape and harass people... those people never worked (because they never wanted to work) and all those money from EU programs (and our taxes) are just being poured into the big botomless hole... yet they always get it, because the smart heads that never lived in my country always fall for their sob stories (totally untrue, they're great con artists) consider them just the poor outcasts of our racist nation (what a BS!).
Try to google "Lunik 9", it's one of the famous places of Slovakia - the place inhabited now 100% by Roma gypsies. The place is so toxic, that city always needs to clean the meters of rubbish and excrements because they're afraid of some huge epidemy (happened before) - and this happens every year, no matter what is done, they continue living like this.
And the situation in Romania and Bulgaria is even much much worse, trust me.
If I were you, I would fight tooth and nail to keep them out of my country... the exceptions exist (I'd say less than 1% of all gypsies), but those people usually integrate very well into culture, they work and there's no single complain about them, I have some friends among them - but those people you won't see begging on your streets.

Just my .02 cents and I hope to see some other smartass accusing me of ignorance and racism... come to Slovakia and live here for a year, it's dirt cheap and you'll have some multicultural fun for free .

PS: I didn't write about common Bulgarians/Romanians... I wrote about gypsies - I know the difference, so no need to point that out.

[kungfu24]

ywetka wrote

PS: I didn't write about common Bulgarians/Romanians... I wrote about gypsies - I know the difference, so no need to point that out.

What you are talking about is a thing of past for Finland. Slovakia is still a backward country and you are where Finland was half a century or even more ago. You are talking about people who are Slovakian nationals i.e. equivalent to Finnish "mustalaiset". Doesn't matter how they are, they are as much Slovakians as you are. Slovakia is their homeland and all their issues must be solved in Slovakia and by Slovakia. Hatred and then resultant persecution and discrimination will not solve any problems. People here also used to blame mustalaiset for many problems, but not (or at least almost not) anymore. They have equal oppertunities now and state is trying to compensate for the past injustice just as it is doing for Sami people. They are still not doing as good as other Finns but it's understandable that they were left far behind in the past and it will take time for them to catch up with others.

Nowadays Finland has a problem with people who are coming from Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia and other places. They are not Finnish nationals so it's not really Finland's duty to solve their problems. Their problems should be sorted out by their respective countries, Finland's problem is only to think that how to protect Finland from them.

So basically your problem is very different than Finnish problem. There is no comparison. You are talking about your countryfellows while Finland doesn't have any real problem with Finnish citizens.

I hope, Slovakia will grow up fast and learn how to treat minorities and educate its citizens to respect other citizens.

[ywetka]

of course it's not problem of Finland, but that's why they should really take care about who they let in their country. Because trust me, we tried everything in Slovakia, and the problem is that also gypsies don't respect other Slovakians. Of course they are the same citizens as me, but I paid taxes all my life and I try to be a good law abiding citizen. I deal with them with respect, however they don't treat me (or other non-gypsies) in such way. They usually want something from me (money) and when I refuse, they curse me and spit on me... is it normal?? Politicians here are so afraid of being called racists that they rather chose to be blind and forgive them almost everything, while supporting them with free money and debt forgivings - I call this a discrimination against non-gypsies people, I don't know how to call that otherwise. I know you try to see non-gypsies as the root of problem, but you probably don't know the situation from first hand, because you've never lived in such country (I'm sorry if I'm wrong)... we suffer a lot, it's not easy. In fact it's so hard that I really consider to move from Slovakia - but don't worry, not to Finland . I hate seeing all my tax money going to the big black hole, simple as that, I tried all I could...

[Karhunkoski]

I've recently discussed the Finnish gypsies with family and friends. Apparently in the 1940s, 1950s,1960s, gypsies were a persistant irritation to many small farms, often arriving uninvited in peoples' parlours in search of something...... (read into that what you will...). Apparently some farmers even had to discharge firearms before the unwelcome visitors left.

Nowadays you no longer hear of these stories, so something changed.

[ywetka]

I've recently discussed the Finnish gypsies with family and friends. Apparently in the 1940s, 1950s,1960s, gypsies were a persistant irritation to many small farms, often arriving uninvited in peoples' parlours in search of something...... (read into that what you will...). Apparently some farmers even had to discharge firearms before the unwelcome visitors left.

Nowadays you no longer hear of these stories, so something changed.

I'd love to know what helped . It's quite tragic in Slovakia now leading to many disputes and unfortunately open conflicts :-/. Firearms were used only twice, but it was result of years long suffering (gypsies harrased those persons by throwing excrements on them and disrupting their sleep at night (among others) = all for years, when the attacking person's cries for help were ignored by police and government because of fear of being called racists by "Brussels"). Although I don't agree with such ways of dealing with problems, one can see the reason it might someone drive crazy... Not only minorities suffer... and need to be respected, this should be mutual.

[kungfu24]

I'd love to know what helped

Acceptance by the state that there was widespread injustice towards gypsies. Also acceptance of the fact that they were subject to discrimination and were made scapegoats for many problems. Many times they were put into prisons for the crimes of others because they were the weakest. So as soon as the state realised/accepted all this and had a strong desire to deal with the issues of discrimination and injustice, things started to change rapidly.

So the lesson is, unless there is acceptence of the facts that there is widespread discrimination and persecution of gypsies in Bulgaria, Slovakia, Romania, Hungary etc. the problems are not going to go away.

Can't find anymore but there was one interesting documentary made by YLE about the gypsy issue, and there were clips which showed how mistreatment by police and hate speech about gypsies by politicians were norms and accepted behaviours in the society. The situation in Finland was not different than the above mentioned countries so not hard to see how to fix the problem.

[Rip]

Also unfortunately better well fare payments. Can't say that our own Romas would be a problem free minority, even though for most considerably less visible than these imported ones.

[ywetka]

I'd love to know what helped

Acceptance by the state that there was widespread injustice towards gypsies.

Ok, I see that except that first sentence you probably didn't read the rest of my post (or my PMs)... but ok, whatever. Hopefully you'll have a possibility to visit those countries and see for yourself (or come and tell this all to us, because you're talking 'new' stuff we've never heard and never tried to apply), because unfortunately you're only talking in a theoretic way without knowing the real situation here and therefore there is no point in arguing about that. I'm not saying this because I want to insult, no way, just because you're another one who (doesn't live here and) take minorities' side no matter what they do and do not try to look at problem closer. We're not that backward as you said... As I said, respect NEEDS to be mutual and not only minorities suffer and are the real victims.
Those fears about being accused of racisms are out of control now and unfortunately also pretty much abused...

PS: This is getting pretty much out of topic, so this is my last post to this thread. However I found few sentences in one forum that describe that problem with too much tolerance (yes, there is such thing, unfortunately), it sums the situation pretty well:

The discrimination thing needs to be stressed more. The whole EU is hell-bent on something they call "tolerance" for some reason (although it has nothing to do with the real deal). Basically a gypsy is a protected species - their families collect 30k CZK (1000 EUR) a month on social security alone (above citizen's usual income, which is funny but cca 700 EUR). They routinely engage in crimes (like the ones you listed, plus prostitution), but the state is unable to punish them sufficiently because they tend to draw the discrimination card and aren't afraid to push the cases to EU courts.

More about some experiences http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comme ... s_so_much/ by LOTS of people in whole Europe and even US - they sure are all pretty wrong (ignore the insulting comments, as everywhere, idiots can be found).

Have a nice day.

[kungfu24]

Rip! Ywetka's quote trumps your argument
He wrote

The discrimination thing needs to be stressed more. The whole EU is hell-bent on something they call "tolerance" for some reason (although it has nothing to do with the real deal). Basically a gypsy is a protected species - their families collect 30k CZK (1000 EUR) a month on social security alone (above citizen's usual income, which is funny but cca 700 EUR). They routinely engage in crimes (like the ones you listed, plus prostitution), but the state is unable to punish them sufficiently because they tend to draw the discrimination card and aren't afraid to push the cases to EU courts.

Welfare benefits are also contributing but as you can see, alone benefits are not enough otherwise Slovakian gypsies should also be living like Finnish gypsies. They are a factor but nowhere near to the most important one.

For Ywetka!

"Come and see yourslef" is not the best approach. 2-3 hundred years ago people would say come and see yourself that men are doing all the important jobs so ladies are incapable of doing them mentally and physically. Person like you would go and confirm the "fact". Same was in Finland, "come and see yourself" so many gypsies were in prinsons, so it's a proof that they were criminals, while for you it could be a strong enough proof, not for me.

Jews, blacks Africans, Finnish gypsies and ladies everywhere, problems were not solved or at least reduced until it was accepted that they were discriminated and were subjected to great injustice.

What you fail to understand is that social problems can't be judged on face value, you need to dig deeper to see the real issues. But as it seems that you don't have ability to see things from this angle, it's useless to waste time on you.

[ywetka]

But as it seems that you don't have ability to see things from this angle, it's useless to waste time on you.

talk about being judgmental and intolerant whatever, man, finally, thank you! those are also my exact words for you .


EDIT: ok we explained our points via friendly private messages, it was basically a misunderstanding, so this discussion doesn't need to continue! .

[Rip]

Rip! Ywetka's quote trumps your argument

No i don't think so. First of all, without detailed calculation I still believe benefits are (even after PPP adjustments) better here (large families with no income can collect benefits quite nicely here...). Secondly, I never said there isn't or hasn't been discrimination, merely implying that there is even here behaviour on Roma's side which does not integrate well to a modern society (contempt of formal education and blood feuds as examples), consequences of which can be partly bandaged over with generous social benefits.

[Pursuivant]

Jews, blacks Africans, Finnish gypsies and ladies everywhere, problems were not solved or at least reduced until it was accepted that they were discriminated and were subjected to great injustice.

If you act like a human being, you get treated like a human being. if you act like a jew, black african, gypsy or a lady, you get treated as such. I have no tolerance for people not acting like humans. And that is what i decide is "human" not you, you must make yourself known to me before I decide. Act not human, steal, be a criminal, annoy me, you have the same rights as the dogturd next to you on the street.