Finnish citizen

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mrnestyy1875
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:55 pm

Finnish citizen

Post by mrnestyy1875 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:15 pm

Please i need your advice

I am planning to apply for Finnish Citizen. Last year, i was mistakenly blacklisted by Ulosoto for refusing to pay a credit card debt on time. I read on migri website that debt could affect Finnish citizenship Application but i was wondering if bank loan debt would affect my application or do they mean Tax or fines debt owed to the government?



Finnish citizen

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tjawatts
Posts: 638
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Location: Siuntio
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Re: Finnish citizen

Post by tjawatts » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:50 pm

They mean overdue debts. So not bank loans unless you are not making the required payments.

The ulosotto issue might affect, although if it was mistaken you should ask ulosotto to remove it from your record.

T


homeuser
Posts: 104
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:51 pm

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by homeuser » Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:20 am

Hello mrnestyy1875,

Have you got the citizenship ?
Did Ulosoto create any impact on your citizenship desicion ?

Regards,


Flossy1978
Posts: 1386
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by Flossy1978 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:35 am

How can it be a mistake and you refused to pay the bill on time? That isn't a mistake. You didn't pay, you get blacklisted. That is how it is.

Good luck with your citizenship!


Rip
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by Rip » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:18 am

The original question is old. I assumed that there was a valid and properly handled (from OPs side) disagreement about the bill and it should never had gone to 'ulosotto'.


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by podzap » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:25 pm

Old post, but still relevant question...

Granting of Finnish citizenship is "discretionary", meaning that even if you meet all conditions they can still deny you and even if you don't meet all conditions they can still approve you. In other words, the law allows Migri to pick and choose who they want and who they don't want to become Finnish citizens.

You can be in ulosotto, have legal problems, etc and still be approved if you have strong ties to Finland, pay enough taxes and never suck government money.

On the other hand, you can meet all requirements and still be denied if you do things like participate in protests against deportation of denied asylum seekers, etc.

You should just be careful how you behave if your goal is citizenship, because at the end of the day the decision is discretionary.


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Beep_Boop
Posts: 1969
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Location: Niflheim, Suomi

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by Beep_Boop » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:48 pm

podzap wrote:On the other hand, you can meet all requirements and still be denied if you do things like participate in protests against deportation of denied asylum seekers, etc.
Whence have you pulled that?
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:50 pm

podzap wrote: Granting of Finnish citizenship is "discretionary", meaning that even if you meet all conditions they can still deny you and even if you don't meet all conditions they can still approve you.
It is not.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset ... 030359.pdf
podzap wrote: In other words, the law allows Migri to pick and choose who they want and who they don't want to become Finnish citizens.
It does not. An official doing such picking and choosing is committing a crime.


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by podzap » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:36 am

Yes, it definitely is discretionary. This was on the migri website for a long time and still at the end of 2016, and the law hasn't changed since then:

"The granting of Finnish citizenship by application is discretionary. Citizenship can be granted even if some requirements are not met. On the other hand, citizenship can be denied even if all requirements stipulated by law have been met."

The link you posted to the Aliens Act has zero text regarding the aquisition of Finnish citizenship, so I don't know what you were really trying to point out.


http://www.migri.fi/download/16429_Suom ... 65c35bd488
CITIZENSHIP BY APPLICATION
Finnish citizenship may be acquired by application. The naturalisation of an applicant is at the discretion
of the authorities. An applicant who meets the requirements set out in the law has no absolute right to Finnish citizenship. Then again, it is possible to grant citizenship to an applicant who does not meet all the requirements.

From the Nationality Act (the one you really should have been pointing to):
No one may be naturalised, even if he or she would meet the requirements for naturalisation, if there are well-founded reasons for suspecting that the naturalisation will jeopardise the security of the State or public order, or if the main purpose of acquiring citizenship is to take advantage of the benefit related to Finnish citizenship without aiming to settle in Finland, or if naturalisation conflicts with the best interests of the State for some other reason on the basis of an overall consideration of the applicant’s situation.
Let's see:

1. jeopardising public order
2. jeopardising security of the state
3. conflicting with the best interest of the state


I'd say that pretty squarely grants the officials 100% discretion.


What do you think these people are going to be charged with? At least one of the above, possibly all three.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/hundr ... ki/9545998
Police at the Pasila station said they used physical force and gas when the protests escalated and demonstrators prevented police vehicles from departing to respond to calls.

Police also said on Tuesday that they had launched a criminal investigation into the events that took place in Pasila on Monday night.
Last edited by podzap on Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by podzap » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:42 am

Beep_Boop wrote:
podzap wrote:On the other hand, you can meet all requirements and still be denied if you do things like participate in protests against deportation of denied asylum seekers, etc.
Whence have you pulled that?
The naturalisation of an applicant is at the discretion of the authorities.


go2017
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:01 pm

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by go2017 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:27 pm

does it mean that in one way or another there will be an affectations if like for example i have debts in credit card although i religiously pay for it? just asking. :)


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by podzap » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:23 am

go2017 wrote:does it mean that in one way or another there will be an affectations if like for example i have debts in credit card although i religiously pay for it? just asking. :)
The government very likely doesn't care about your consumer debt. They do care a whole lot about your public debt - for example, taxes and fines.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2621
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:59 pm

podzap wrote:Yes, it definitely is discretionary. This was on the migri website for a long time and still at the end of 2016, and the law hasn't changed since then:

"The granting of Finnish citizenship by application is discretionary. Citizenship can be granted even if some requirements are not met. On the other hand, citizenship can be denied even if all requirements stipulated by law have been met."
Well it is not there now. Yes the official handling the application does need to use personal judgment within the boundaries of the law. However, I interpreted your usage of discretionary as personal freedom to decide as they please.
podzap wrote: The link you posted to the Aliens Act has zero text regarding the aquisition of Finnish citizenship, so I don't know what you were really trying to point out.
I posted a link to the Nationality Act. I don't know what makes you think it points to the Aliens Act.
podzap wrote: Let's see:

1. jeopardising public order
2. jeopardising security of the state
3. conflicting with the best interest of the state

I'd say that pretty squarely grants the officials 100% discretion.
The burden of proof is on the official and a court will overturn the decision if proof is missing.
podzap wrote: What do you think these people are going to be charged with? At least one of the above, possibly all three.
The Nationality Act is not Criminal Code and you can't be charged with anything based on it. If crimes happened, the charges will be brought based on the criminal code. If convicted, the convictions can cause problems for a citizenship application later on (depending on how serious the conviction is).


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Finnish citizen

Post by podzap » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:28 pm

You don't seem to understand that your efforts are lost on trying to "splain" to me.

You take part in a protest and block police cars from leaving Pasila station, you ain't getting citizenship by application. Ever. It's as simple as that. A couple of phone calls and everyone is in lockstep against you; your complaint won't even see the light of day. Time for reality check.

And yes, the decision of citizenship by application is a "mielivalta" 100%. There have been cases of athletes denied citizenship for no other reason than it would have pissed off the Russian government. That is called "the best interests of the state".

Aspergers won't help to win any legal concessions.


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