Help me move to Finland II

pazzo50 · Post by **pazzo50** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:09 am

I am an EU national, about 50, and want to settle in Finland. Please guys who are there since some time, help me with some vital info: From sites like infopankki and others I understand I have the right as a new arrived EU citizen, within 7 days to register as a jobless jobseeker at TE office. Can I do that without an address, living at a hostel? And if I could, do I have the right to claim some financial assistance as jobseeker, as the site claims I can? Then, is there such a thing as an integration plan from TE officer, which will allow me to obtain labor market subsidy? What about KELA? When can I first register there? I know swedish language pretty well, but no Finnish. What's the chance of landing a job, even as cleaner or dish-washer? Without a job contract, after 3 months, will they register me in poliisi, with residence card, if I only prove about 12 000 Euro in a bank statement? I would appreciate your help with any info on these topics.

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Upphew · Post by **Upphew** » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:35 pm

pazzo50 wrote:I am an EU national, about 50, and want to settle in Finland. Please guys who are there since some time, help me with some vital info: First - I arrive at Helsinki airport, go to a tourist office, get an address of a vandrarhem(hostel), or a private room for a couple of nights, then what? What's the chance of finding a room to rent quickly up to 400 Euro/month? Now, from sites like infopankki and others I understand I have the right as a new arrived EU citizen, within 7 days to register as a jobless jobseeker at TE office. Can I do that without an address, living at a hostel? And if I could, do I have the right to claim some financial assistance as jobseeker, as the site claims I can? Then, is there such a thing as an integration plan from TE officer, which will allow me to obtain labor market subsidy? What about KELA? When can I first register there? I know swedish language pretty well, but no Finnish. What's the chance of landing a job, even as cleaner or dish-washer? Without a job contract, after 3 months, will they register me in poliisi, with residence card, if I only proove about 10 000 Euro in a bank statement? I would appreciate your help with any info on these topics. Peter

You have right to claim financial assistance as jobseeker now and transfer that to Finland for three months (?). You won't get financial assistance from Finland.

"if you are not an employee or self-employed, a description of your means of support."
http://www.poliisi.fi/licences_and_perm ... _residence

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:10 am

You won't get registered here (for benefits etc.) without job or proof of funds. Any current unemployment benefits you may get can be paid here for maximum of three months.

I guess there might some jobs, on a narrow coastal strip where knowing Swedish (without knowing Finnish) could help. I doubt much in Helsinki, more in some of the smaller towns (which have higher fraction of Swedish speakers).

Some claim there is a desperate need for new workers in this country. Maye there is still need for cleaners or tomato pickers (Yes, in this country too. in greenhouses)Frankly I'm somewhat interested myself how poor the pay and conditions offered actually are.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:37 am

I am an EU national, about 50,

Apart from not speaking Finnish, your age is the main obstacle for finding work.
There are plenty of youngsters unemployed who cost much less. (junior wages)

pazzo50 · Post by **pazzo50** » Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:35 am

Thanks guys, doesn't look good, my age, no Finnish language, no qualifications or degrees, apart from cd drivers license. I should probably try Sweden for a better chance. But for some reason I like the Finnish humble attitude, or is it just a myth of the humbleness of the Finnish people? Also it sounded so nice this thing about the integration program of the TE office, like Finnish language lessons, labor market subsidy etc., but as You say guys such thing exist only for Finnish citizens, or did I get it wrong? As for registering as self-sufficient, how much money do I need to prove in a bank account, and is that guarantying one a permanent stay in Finland, if registered?

pazzo50 · Post by **pazzo50** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:00 am

Thank you, Tummansininen for the comprehensive layout of the status quo. I have another question: let's say I come to Finland as EU jobseeker, stay 3 months, fail to find a job(very probable), register at poliisi as self sufficient, showing some bank statement with 12K +E, get resident card and pers. code No, in this case, as registered, do I have rights of integration plan plus labor market subsidy, or not. And if I spend a year or two in Finland, as a jobless jobseeker, spend all my money, are You saying they are going to deport me after all, if I ask for welfare? I am not saying that I want to sleep all day and live on welfare, but it may happen that I don't find a job for a long time, with my poor qualifications and middle age. Are You saying that Finland will throw out every EU migrant, who did not pay any/or enough taxes, or did not have 1000+E/ month for the whole 5 year permanent residency threshold? All I'm saying is this, I like the country and the nature, I want to live here, I want to work and integrate, but I wouldn't like to fall into a trap, spend a couple of years and a bundle of cash, and forcibly have to leave anyway. And You are saying that this is highly likely to happen in my case, with no Finnish, no high qualifications, and being middle aged. So the EU free movement is only for the young, educated, wealthy and/or able to fill any gap in the job market. I mean, even if it sounds too harsh and cruel, I need to know if this is the truth about Finland. An integration plan would make a world of a difference, a person would feel cared for and appreciated. It would be much easier to find a job with the help of a case worker, I mean I can't even read the adds, they are almost all in Finnish. Please guys, anyone gone through this, can You give me some/any hope?

David Junior · Post by **David Junior** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:56 am

pazzo50 wrote:Thank you, Tummansininen for the comprehensive layout of the status quo. I have another question: let's say I come to Finland as EU jobseeker, stay 3 months, fail to find a job(very probable), register at poliisi as self sufficient, showing some bank statement with 12K +E, get resident card and pers. code No, in this case, as registered, do I have rights of integration plan plus labor market subsidy, or not. And if I spend a year or two in Finland, as a jobless jobseeker, spend all my money, are You saying they are going to deport me after all, if I ask for welfare? I am not saying that I want to sleep all day and live on welfare, but it may happen that I don't find a job for a long time, with my poor qualifications and middle age. Are You saying that Finland will throw out every EU migrant, who did not pay any/or enough taxes, or did not have 1000+E/ month for the whole 5 year permanent residency threshold? All I'm saying is this, I like the country and the nature, I want to live here, I want to work and integrate, but I wouldn't like to fall into a trap, spend a couple of years and a bundle of cash, and forcibly have to leave anyway. And You are saying that this is highly likely to happen in my case, with no Finnish, no high qualifications, and being middle aged. So the EU free movement is only for the young, educated, wealthy and/or able to fill any gap in the job market. I mean, even if it sounds too harsh and cruel, I need to know if this is the truth about Finland. An integration plan would make a world of a difference, a person would feel cared for and appreciated. It would be much easier to find a job with the help of a case worker, I mean I can't even read the adds, they are almost all in Finnish. Please guys, anyone gone through this, can You give me some/any hope?

Hei there,

Hope you had a nice week-end !

So many words for a basically rather simple question.

Put it simple, no one will "deport" you after 1 year or 2 years or 5 years or whatever time
you might want to spend as a fellow EU citizen to find "your" way.

The bottom line is that later of before you need to find a way to support yourself economically as in any member state or in any place of the planet,
but there is basically no "expiration date" for EU citizens.

However as you said, with little qualification, you will end up doing menial activities
( in relation to which it seems you have no problem though) at least as a start.
Then in the longer term events follow paths that are impossible to predict.

I have a couple of questions about your case though, if I may without intruding too much in your personal matters.

What makes you want to run from your country so hard at your age investing all your savings in here ?

What about your family, wife, children... if any ... do you have anything to lose at all in such a move ?

From which country do you come from ?

Last but not least : even though you stated earlier that you have no qualifications you still seem to me a rather educated person considering your command of the english language and also the knowledge of swedish ... on top of your native language... so how comes you wanna put yourself through all this.... flipping burgers ... cleaning jobs.... and so on ?

David Junior · Post by **David Junior** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:10 am

PS.

You dont need to wait for 3 months to register yourself.

You can do it right away if you wish so.

interleukin · Post by **interleukin** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:17 am

pazzo50 wrote:So the EU free movement is only for the young, educated, wealthy and/or able to fill any gap in the job market. I mean, even if it sounds too harsh and cruel, I need to know if this is the truth about Finland.

The word movement is the important one here. You and other EU citizens are free to MOVE AROUND as much as you want (mostly) within the EU. You are free to BE in Finland as much as you want (no one will actually kick you out for BEING in Finland as long as you behave). This is very different from RESIDENCE. You are free to be a tourist in Finland as much as you want, but if you want to be treated like a resident, you have to bring something to the table. This is the same for people at any age, no one is picking on you for being fifty. If you want to actually RESIDE in Finland, not just be a tourist, you have to be able to take care of yourself. If you have shown for a few years that you can, you have then earned the right to get economical help if you need. You first need to contribute something to society, THEN you can start asking for things back.

This is basically the same in other EU countries, Finland is not picking on you. I also wonder why you would ever want to make this move anyway, if you have to be planning for government handouts even before the move, a move is probably a bad idea.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:35 am

fail to find a job(very probable), register at poliisi as self sufficient, showing some bank statement with 12K +E, get resident card and pers. code No, in this case, as registered, do I have rights of integration plan plus labor market subsidy, or not. And if I spend a year or two in Finland, as a jobless jobseeker, spend all my money, are You saying they are going to deport me after all, if I ask for welfare?

The problem is that the police will judge the situation. With your age and only 12 k and no Finnish, it will be highly unlikely that you'll remain self sufficient after the money runs out. (and you could spend it in a few months if you like, it's your money after all) So most likely they won't register you and you'll remain a tourist. (so no benefits, integration course and so on)

David Junior · Post by **David Junior** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:41 am

Little "rectification" to what Interleukin said.

He can ALSO reside right away, as a fellow EU citizen, even before starting to look for a job.

The important thing is for him to open a bank account and deposit on it the sum of money
that is requested to support himself.

The part I don't like though is the fact he is putting too much emphasis on the money from the government.

That comes only after he starts working... and anyway.... even finns who count on living on government support
instead of doing some productive activity do not live a particularly comfortable life.

betelgeuse · Post by **betelgeuse** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 10:54 am

David Junior wrote: Put it simple, no one will "deport" you after 1 year or 2 years or 5 years or whatever time
you might want to spend as a fellow EU citizen to find "your" way.

The bottom line is that later of before you need to find a way to support yourself economically as in any member state or in any place of the planet,
but there is basically no "expiration date" for EU citizens.

The Aliens Act disagrees with you:

Section 168 (360/2007)
Grounds for deporting EU citizens and their family members
(1) EU citizens whose right of residence has been registered, or their family members who have been issued with a residence card, may be deported if they fail to meet the requirements for the right of residence laid down in section 158a, 161d or 161e, or if they are considered a danger to public order or security under section 156 or to public health under section 156a.

https://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokse ... 040301.pdf

tummansininen wrote: There are four main ways to come to Finland legally.
1. You already have a job offer
2. You are moving here to be with a family member who is already here legally
3. You are moving here because you have gained entry to university AND you can support yourself
4. You are an EU citizen under freedom-of-movement AND you can support yourself by savings/foreign investments

For either 1 or 2 you would probably get Kela coverage (health care, labour market subsidy, integration if you don't work, and so on).

For either 3 or 4 you have to show money in your bank account or investment income, and there is no labour market subsidy or integration. For study it's about 7000 euro per year. For EU registration it's about 12000 euro per year.

The Finnish social security is based on residence. So integration plan is available for number 4:

Kotouttamista tukevien toimenpiteiden piiriin voi kuulua Suomeen muuttanut henkilö, jolla on kotikuntalaissa (201/1994) tarkoitettu kotikunta Suomessa.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/1999 ... idp3549120

Basically all the categories you describe are eligible to some benefits but by applying they create grounds for deportation (short term can be fine).

David Junior · Post by **David Junior** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:01 am

.

I think Betelguese portrayed a more accurate picture.

pazzo50 · Post by **pazzo50** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:25 pm

Thanks guys, for your replies. OK, one thing is now clear to me, I think: no one will deport me, but sooner or later I have to find gainful employment( before I run out of money) to sustain my life, and if I don't , I'll either have to leave Finland or live on the street and beg(no welfare). You all agree? Rinso is saying:" The poliisi will judge your case and most probably they will read you as unlikely to stay self sufficient and deny registration (residence card and pers.code No), so your status will basically be "EU tourist for up to 3 months.

rinso · Post by **rinso** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:42 pm

Why run? I want more money, a better life, better old age benefits, happiness.

Than Finland is not the country for you.
Forget about a job, you're to old, every employer can find cheaper and younger alternatives (who also speak Finnish). And even if you manage to get into the system, the handouts you can get are the absolute minimum to sustain yourself. No luxury, no fine dining, no entertainment, no car, no vacation, prime customer of the second hand shops.

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