Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

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Querfeldein
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Querfeldein » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:58 pm

Once again, thanks for all your answers. It looks like getting an ID number and right of residence will certainly make things easier, but fortunately, I won't have to wait a month to get them, so I will just apply for them asap (even if that entails some waiting time; I'll make sure I bring something to read). In the meantime, I'll probably manage fine with my existing € account and credit card, and use the internet at work (I might even find a friendly neighbour willing to share the wifi connection). I'll let you know how I get on with the other items on the list after I have got the ID - I was recommended Nordea bank, but since I'll probably not qualify as a "key customer", I might also look for other options.

On the question of banking, is there in fact anything that a bank account in Finland would allow me to do, that I cannot do with a German SEPA / € account? My current € account allows free cash withdrawals abroad and online banking, as well as a free credit card (and I also have a clearing account and portfolio with the same bank). The university already said it won't be a problem to have my salary paid into the German account. Keeping all my € in one place sounds appealing, but up until a few years ago, in Germany at least, people still dealt mainly with the German "account number / sort code" system, while IBAN / BIC was largely unheard of. Today, thanks to online banking, people have moved to IBAN / BIC. How is it in Finland, is there some kind of national system that's still being used?



Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

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Guido2046
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Guido2046 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:16 pm

Finland moved to use IBAN (and disuse his account number system) around one year ago.
If you can receive your payments to your german account and you have free cash withdrawals you will not need a finnish bank account for banking operations.

The problem is that in Finland bank codes are used for online identity, you can login to external/government sites using bank codes, otherwise you will need a finnish id card (released also to foreigners)

Nordea charges 3 euro/month for bank codes enabled to login to external/government sites, S-Pankki is free but in order to enable the bank codes you will need a Finnish Id or a finnish driver license.


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onkko
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by onkko » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:28 pm

chrislaa wrote:
1. opening a bank account
I opened a bank account in my first week in Finland, without henkilötunnus or Right of Residence confirmation. I did it at the Nordea Hakaniemi branch - took my job contract, passport, proof of address (rental agreement) and set up a deposit straight away.
I assume this was before USA/ÉU rules about money laundering. I also opened account withouth any papers but that was 30 years ago.
Caesare weold Graecum, ond Caelic Finnum


Rip
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Rip » Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:17 pm

(In addition to online ID verification use) how fast are nowadays SEPA payments between Germany and Finland - is there any difference to domestic ones? (not that this is necessary important point)


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Beep_Boop » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:02 pm

Rip wrote:(In addition to online ID verification use) how fast are nowadays SEPA payments between Germany and Finland - is there any difference to domestic ones? (not that this is necessary important point)
I'm not sure about Germany, but I've sent and received a couple of payments to and from Netherlands. It usually appears on the next business day. Actually, just yesterday I received a payment that was sent on Wednesday from Netherlands.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.


Rip
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Rip » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:17 pm

So the only drawback is the inability to use local online identification service? I'd say one does not need to hurry to get a local bank account then.
(I use those services occasionally, but those I've found most valuable are unlikely to be relevant to Querfeldein.)


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Beep_Boop » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:21 pm

Rip wrote:So the only drawback is the inability to use local online identification service? I'd say one does not need to hurry to get a local bank account then.
(I use those services occasionally, but those I've found most valuable are unlikely to be relevant to Querfeldein.)
The ID card you get from the police is enough for online identification on Vero, TE-palvelut, Kela, Posti, etc.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.


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Kössi K
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Kössi K » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:35 pm

I'd see the inability to make easy payments of bills at home online as the major drawback in not having online banking codes.
Unless, of course, you have an easy-access account abroad, then that's sorted. For example, payments from an Australian bank seem to take several days, 4-5 even, to Finland.

As for SEPA from Germany, it depends on the banks and their cooperation links. Some payments from Gemany seem to get here as fast as 1 working day, some take 2-3. I actually noticed a 1-day difference between a bank in Germany and OP vs. DanskeBank, the latter one being that speedy 1 day transfer. Same applied to some other European countries, like from the UK and France it has generally taken 2 days.
So, that 2 day transfer time is equal to transfers between some Finnish banks - they generally claim it happens in 1 to 2 days here.

And S-etukortti: they are NOT all credit/debit cards. You can still get one without any payment options, and it comes without any age limits, too, btw.
Joha mie sanoi, vaikken mittää virkkant.


betelgeuse
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:39 pm

Querfeldein wrote: On the question of banking, is there in fact anything that a bank account in Finland would allow me to do, that I cannot do with a German SEPA / € account? My current € account allows free cash withdrawals abroad and online banking, as well as a free credit card (and I also have a clearing account and portfolio with the same bank). The university already said it won't be a problem to have my salary paid into the German account. Keeping all my € in one place sounds appealing, but up until a few years ago, in Germany at least, people still dealt mainly with the German "account number / sort code" system, while IBAN / BIC was largely unheard of. Today, thanks to online banking, people have moved to IBAN / BIC. How is it in Finland, is there some kind of national system that's still being used?
Here's a couple things that are or can be different for Finnish accounts:
  • Until SEPA Creditor Reference becomes widespread you can have problems with reference codes: http://www.finextra.com/blogs/fullblog.aspx?blogid=7574
  • Some online sites might support payment online with only with the Finnish bank direct debit integrations
  • The old domestic standards allow identification of the recipient bank account. This has only been relevant to me when selling an apartment since the buyer's bank wants to verify the money is paid to the seller's account.
  • I remember that some of the legislation references to domestic bank accounts were only recently changed to refer to EU. Maybe some still linger.
Rip wrote:(In addition to online ID verification use) how fast are nowadays SEPA payments between Germany and Finland - is there any difference to domestic ones? (not that this is necessary important point)
They both go through STEP2:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBA_Clearing#STEP2

I am not sure what parts of the process cause the differences Kössi K reported.


desowin
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by desowin » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:24 pm

adnan wrote:First of all, you don't need an appointment for EU registration. You just go to the police station and take a queue number, that's all you need.
Either it changed since April or I was told wrong at Police station in Vantaa. I moved to Finland in February and went to Police in April (3 months) to register. At the police station I all managed to do in April was just registering an appointment (the Police officer did that for me after I presented her the documents) for June.
Guido2046 wrote:S-Pankki is free but in order to enable the bank codes you will need a Finnish Id or a finnish driver license.
In February I registered a temporary residence in Finland at Maistraatti. I tried to apply for S-Pankki back then and got a letter that only the permanent residents can open S-Pankki account.

So after getting the Police/Maistraatti EU registration sorted out, I went to S-Pankki again and it my Polish Id card and permanent residence confirmation from Maistraatti was perfectly fine to get S-Etukortti and netbank.


betelgeuse
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:11 pm

desowin wrote:
adnan wrote:First of all, you don't need an appointment for EU registration. You just go to the police station and take a queue number, that's all you need.
Either it changed since April or I was told wrong at Police station in Vantaa. I moved to Finland in February and went to Police in April (3 months) to register. At the police station I all managed to do in April was just registering an appointment (the Police officer did that for me after I presented her the documents) for June.
You were told wrong.

http://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/Resource.p ... tx?id=1002
"Clients must be able to transact their business with police permit services without having to make an appointment, simply by waiting their turn at a service point,"says Deputy-Ombudsman Jussi Pajuoja.


Querfeldein
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Querfeldein » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:31 pm

OK, I promised I would post an update, so here it is - YMMV, especially if you're not an EU citizen:

Registration for me was a three-step process:

1. Register Right of Residence with the Police (Pasolan Poliisitalo 2, Pasilantaitio 11, Helsinki)

You need: Passport, Work Contract, 50€ fee.

At the police station, go into the "Foreigner" Room and draw a number. They currently operate two queues, one for EU nationals, and one for everyone else. Even though I was in the EU queue, I had to wait for about three hours - and there were only 12 people in the line in front of me. Be sure to bring something to read or to listen to. Also, the waiting room was very crowded, so I spent most of the time outside. The staff weren't particularly friendly, but I suppose they are under a lot of stress right now, so I'll cut them some slack. My agent told me that there would be another fee to pay at the Maistraatit, but that turned out to be not the case. Also, he didn't think I could apply for my ID directly, and I didn't want to argue. Note that the queue is processed until the end, the closing time just means they aren't giving out any more numbers from then on (they told me that they'd process people until midnight if necessary). If the room is full, be sure to draw your number first; you will have plenty of time to locate the appropriate form and fill it in afterwards. Also, there's a coffee machine in the non-foreigner waiting room. You may want to make an appointment online, but right now, you will have to do that several months in advance.

2. Register with the Into Finland Office for your Finnish ID & Tax Card, and to sign up for Kela (Salomonktu 17A, Helsinki)

You need: Passport, Work Contract. They also checked my housing contract, although I am not sure that was strictly necessary.

This was a completely different experience. I went at 9am, there was no queue, and very friendly service. You pick up one form (ID and Tax Card), fill it in, and draw a number. The clerk explained the Finnish tax system, and calculated my provisional income tax rate for the remainder of the year. At the end, I received my Finnish ID and Tax card (no waiting required). After that, I completed my Kela Form, and drew a new number to speak to a different clerk - again, no waiting required. I got signed up to Kela, although I will receive the confirmation by mail in about a month. They will also send me a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC). Very friendly, both clerks bid me "Welcome to Finland", and sounded like they actually meant it.

3. Register with the Local Register Office for a permanent residence (Maistraatit, Albertinkatu 25, Helsinki)

You need: Letter from the police, work contract, passport. I also used the Finnish ID on the forms, but I am not sure they were strictly necessary.

There was no queue when I turned up at around 9:45am, but it seemed to get a little busier while they were processing my application. They'll send me a confirmation letter by mail (not sure what I'll actually need it for).


Next step: bank account. As I discovered, and as my Finnish colleagues confirmed, the online codes are absolutely necessary to get a mobile phone / internet contract online...


nicolamoving
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by nicolamoving » Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:38 pm

Over two or three weeks I spent three unsuccessful lengthy visits trying to register EU right of residence without making an appointment. One visit alone, softly softly approach for first hour then assertive 'speak to everyone who has a desk' and press them for an answer, no result, one more visit with an accompanying Finn, still no result, one more visit with the same accompanying Finn and finally that person was able to pass us onto a person who was in a position to make our appointment. For when? ANOTHER three weeks wait. Even on the appointment day we had to wait a long time and were told to return again to receive the paperwork., so on the fifth visit I was told that I count receive the promised paperwork without an appointment... sixth visit and an angry Finn and they finally gave it to me, at some point we also had to go off to the Maistraatti, I think we went twice, both before we had police papers and after. The Police website has said something like 3 days maximum processing time for EU residence registrations so I had not rushed to register until the point that I knew I really really needed to. To have to wait five weeks was a massive problem for getting my bank account opened to put my UK money into to purchase the house that we could have lost. No matter what the parlimentary ombudsman says, the people don't know the systems they are supposed to be working to anyway, its just like the UK, a different answer on any given day from a different member of staff. Eight visits to offices to register a right of residence I already possessed, after having already extensively researched the process on the internet, its ridiculous.


Querfeldein
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Location: Helsinki

Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by Querfeldein » Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:57 pm

Nicola, was that at the police office in Pasila? Maybe they recently changed their system, but apart from the long wait, it was a very straightforward process for me; get a number from the "EU registration" queue, fill out an EU registration form, and when I was called to the desk, the clerk already knew what I was there for. After looking at my files, making photocopies, and collecting the €50 fee, he gave me the paper straight away. And even though I told him what my address was going to be, I don't think he saw my housing contract.

Are you sorted now? If not, I would recommend going to the "into Finland" office, they are extremely friendly and helpful. I had already received a lot of advice from the university international staff service, but it felt like both of the people I was dealing with there would have gladly answered any question.



By way of a further update: I got an electricity contract with Helen online; they only wanted the Finnish ID (no banking code), and even accepted my UK phone number. I also applied to open a bank account with S-Pankki. They wanted to see all the documents (letter from Maistraatti with ID, Work Contract, and of course my passport). They already gave me a list of TAN, and assured me that I would get online banking codes, but the application will have to be approved by their head office, so I don't yet know if and when it will be completed. S-Pankki doesn't accept new cooperative members until November, due to a change in their membership scheme, but I was assured I could sign up later, which will make my account free. I will sign up for home content insurance with them at that time.

I also signed up for a mobile phone contract. ELISA didn't want to give me a contract, nor was it possible to get a prepaid sim card online without banking codes (you can get one at R-Kioski, but I didn't feel like paying triple for the same service). I didn't try SONERA, but I ended up signing with DNA in store - they already gave me my sim card, but the application again has to be approved by their head office, and as expected, it's subject to a deposit (apparently you have to have lived in Finland for two years otherwise). Oddly, the most difficult turned out to be joining Huuto.net, where I bought some furniture this weekend. They insisted on a Finnish mobile phone number (a 4th order item, if the usual chain is police -> Maistraatti -> bank -> phone), but fortunately a colleague was able to help out.

That's a lot of paperwork in just a few days, and that doesn't even include the university stuff; user ID, office keys, printing smart card, CSC account, ...
The fact that even banks are open on a weekend does help though, and I think I'm nearly done, onneksi!


betelgeuse
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Re: Life Before Registered Right of Residence (EU)

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:14 am

Querfeldein wrote: I also applied to open a bank account with S-Pankki. They wanted to see all the documents (letter from Maistraatti with ID, Work Contract, and of course my passport). They already gave me a list of TAN, and assured me that I would get online banking codes, but the application will have to be approved by their head office, so I don't yet know if and when it will be completed. S-Pankki doesn't accept new cooperative members until November, due to a change in their membership scheme, but I was assured I could sign up later, which will make my account free. I will sign up for home content insurance with them at that time.
For co-op membership S-Pankki is only an agent for the various co-ops around the country. It's the Helsinki region HOK-Elanto that is not currently accepting new members. You can join any of the other co-ops (or even all of them). The only difference for joining somewhere else is that some discount coupons are valid only in the area of the co-op. S-chain does not sell home insurance but they co-operate with Lähitapiola.


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