New family reunification law - secure income requirement

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Tarja2905
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Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:49 pm

New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Tarja2905 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:16 pm

I read this today:

http://yle.fi/uutiset/married_to_a_fore ... re/8674092

In short: Finns with non-EU husband/wife will also need to meet secure income requirement if want to take their husband/wife to Finland.

Does anyone have more details about this law? Please share!
Is this new law applied for the first application or for extension application also?

Kiitos!



New family reunification law - secure income requirement

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Oombongo
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Oombongo » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:41 pm

Tarja2905 wrote:Does anyone have more details about this law? Please share!
http://www.intermin.fi/fi/ajankohtaista ... essa_65175
http://www.intermin.fi/download/65225_P ... s_2701.pdf
Is this new law applied for the first application or for extension application also?
New I assume.

Now there are two options if you don't fulfill the requirement.
1. Get involved with a "non-foreignized and not-cool" local and the chances of a disaster in relationship is astronomically high in one way or another... and if you end up have kids then I pity for you.
2. fapping.
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leisl
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by leisl » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:20 pm

Life gets interesting if a foreign mother has a Finnish child and the father lives abroad.

They can't really undo the child's right to live in Finland, so will the child be required to support its mother?

Oh... sorry... Aloysius' income isn't sufficient to support you, get on the next plane back to Agrabah, and leave your kid here by himself.


betelgeuse
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:45 pm

Oombongo wrote:
Tarja2905 wrote: Is this new law applied for the first application or for extension application also?
New I assume.
To both (Section 39 subsections 2 and 3)
leisl wrote:Life gets interesting if a foreign mother has a Finnish child and the father lives abroad.

They can't really undo the child's right to live in Finland, so will the child be required to support its mother?

Oh... sorry... Aloysius' income isn't sufficient to support you, get on the next plane back to Agrabah, and leave your kid here by himself.
This is partly why I am interested to see what the constitutional committee says about it. However, even if it passes as is the above case could be approved under:

"Toimeentuloedellytyksestä voidaan yksittäisessä tapauksessa poiketa, jos siihen on poikkeuksellisen painava syy tai lapsen etu sitä vaatii."


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Beep_Boop
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Beep_Boop » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:56 pm

I think this is a very good step in the right direction. I've always liked that this rule in the Danish immigration law.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


leisl
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by leisl » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:10 am

betelgeuse wrote:
leisl wrote:Life gets interesting if a foreign mother has a Finnish child and the father lives abroad.

They can't really undo the child's right to live in Finland, so will the child be required to support its mother?

Oh... sorry... Aloysius' income isn't sufficient to support you, get on the next plane back to Agrabah, and leave your kid here by himself.
This is partly why I am interested to see what the constitutional committee says about it. However, even if it passes as is the above case could be approved under:

"Toimeentuloedellytyksestä voidaan yksittäisessä tapauksessa poiketa, jos siihen on poikkeuksellisen painava syy tai lapsen etu sitä vaatii."
Yeah, I'm quite sure they'll apply an exception now and then, but you can bet we'll hear of a few heartwrenching tales in the news when they get it wrong and the public are outraged. I can just see them deporting women who are heavily pregnant with a Finnish kidlet and then refusing to let them back into the country for several years. There are plenty of horrible countries where getting a DNA test proving a child's heritage is anything but easy.

More to the point. This is going to mean that even more Finns leave the country because they can't afford to import their spouse. There is one story in YLE about it today. Yay, just what we need, more brain drain. Had this been in effect in the past, my partner and I would not be living here right now - there was income to cover the adults, but not the children. So congrats, Finland would have four fewer taxpayers - permanently.


Tarja2905
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Tarja2905 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:10 am

I am in the situation: been here for almost one year, pregnant, going to apply for extension, my husband earns 1570€/month net. If this law starts, does this mean I must leave here and can only come back when my husband can prove he earns 2300€/month net? :(


Tarja2905
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Tarja2905 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:18 am

betelgeuse wrote:
Oombongo wrote:
Tarja2905 wrote: Is this new law applied for the first application or for extension application also?
New I assume.
To both (Section 39 subsections 2 and 3)
(2) An alien’s means of support are
considered secure at the time when the
alien’s first residence permit is issued if the
alien’s residence is financed through gainful
employment, pursuit of a trade, pensions,
property or income from other sources
considered normal so that the alien cannot be
expected to become dependent on social
assistance referred to in the Act on Social
Assistance (1412/1997) or on other similar
benefit to secure his or her means of support.
Social security benefits compensating for
expenses are not regarded as such a benefit.
(3) When issuing extended permits, the
alien’s means of support shall be secure as
provided in subsection 2, provided, however,
that temporary resort to social assistance or
other similar benefit securing the alien’s
means of support does not prevent the issue
of the permit.

I quote from Section 39: can I understand that unemployment benefit can be counted as secure income?

Many thanks :)


leisl
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by leisl » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:13 am

Yes. By law Migri must accept Kela benefits so if you can demonstrate the minimum by including Kela you're fine.


Rip
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Rip » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:59 am

Tarja2905 wrote:I am in the situation: been here for almost one year, pregnant, going to apply for extension, my husband earns 1570€/month net. If this law starts, does this mean I must leave here and can only come back when my husband can prove he earns 2300€/month net? :(
Where do you get 2300? For one kid it says 2200€. Child benefit and possible housing subsidy can be included to that sum. I do not know about unemployment or child care payments.


Rip
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Rip » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:01 am

leisl wrote:So congrats, Finland would have four fewer taxpayers - permanently.

With the combination of euro and open borders to Middle-East does it really matter? It does not look like this country much of future anyway.


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ajdias
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by ajdias » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:33 am

Is there a country where citizens face similar requirements if they want to come back with a partner and children?

To me this looks like a slight of hand type of trick (while we're discussing if will affect Finnish partners and no one is anymore discussing if the restrictions apply to foreigners or refugees) slash "door on the face" tactic (asking for too much, settling for your original goal, see today's Dilbert.)
At the same time this would be strongly popular with the Perus male voters, you know, those guys sitting at their computer complaining that Finnish women are b**s because they won't throw themselves at them :D


leisl
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by leisl » Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:49 am

Plenty of countries have "security bonds" in order to import a family member.


Rip
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Rip » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:09 pm

ajdias wrote:Is there a country where citizens face similar requirements if they want to come back with a partner and children?

It would seem it would apply (among others) in Denmark, Norway and Germany .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_re ... _in_Europe


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Beep_Boop
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Re: New family reunification law - secure income requirement

Post by Beep_Boop » Tue Feb 16, 2016 12:13 pm

ajdias wrote:Is there a country where citizens face similar requirements if they want to come back with a partner and children?
...
if the restrictions apply to foreigners or refugees
Yes. Australia, Germany, and Denmark are the first two that come to my mind.
Also, yes, it applies to foreigners. Actually, the current law already makes this a requirement for foreigners. The main target for the new changes are refugees. Finns are just collateral damage in this.

Again, this is a very good first towards more reasonable immigration laws. Hopefully more changes will be introduced in the future to things like citizenship requirements like increasing the residence period or introducing incom requirements there as well.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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