The office had lied to me and told me I had no choice but to pay the fine. I guess that is how they treat English speakers. I did the google translation of the papers she gave me and they say I have the choice to plead not guilty. Then the prosecutor will decide to take me to court or not. Of course I will lose in court and then I will opt for my day fines to be converted to prison time or community service.
This law only affects foreigners and they seem to have found a group that is easy to extract money from. They will not get a euro from me.
residence permit card for permanent resident
Re: residence permit card for permanent resident
Yeah, 'cause having a prison sentence on your record is soooo much better than a fine.mshamber wrote:This law only affects foreigners and they seem to have found a group that is easy to extract money from. They will not get a euro from me.
You broke the rules by staying without a valid passport and now you're paying for your mistakes. Very simple.
Every case is unique. You can't measure the result of your application based on arbitrary anecdotes online.
Re: residence permit card for permanent resident
and I'm sure they were not supposed to do that kind of consideration, so drawing more attention to your case could result reprimand for the officer and heavier fine four yourself.mshamber wrote: They also gave me 8 days fines (352 euro) for not having a valid passport during an 8 month period in 2015. They said they usually give more day fines but they were showing mercy due to my above average income.
Re: residence permit card for permanent resident
>> Do they get orgasms or sense of satisfaction when they imply fine for other to pay? If we reverse the person, would the same clerk be happy to pay extra fine as her income is high. This false sense of high income in this country is freaking me out.
The police clerk that was helping me looked sad. She had to go get the immigration officer once she saw the mark on my record. The police officer imposing the fine did seem happy with herself. She was more amused when I offered to go to prison instead of paying the fine. It is true that even with a 3k net income I am still sliding into debt with 2 kids. Any money I have is from before I had kids and it is slowly going away over time.
>> You broke the rules by staying without a valid passport and now you're paying for your mistakes. Very simple.
And you were aware that having a gap in your passport could result in up to 24 day fines? At least when I first posted on this board asking what the police notice was about no one had any idea they could fine me for it.
>> Yeah, 'cause having a prison sentence on your record is soooo much better than a fine.
Some people need to fight back against "police for profit" or the fines will keep growing. Fines have doubled in the last year and will continue to increase: http://www.finlandtimes.fi/travel/2015/ ... ch-EUR-20m. If enough people choose prison over the fine when they analyze the outcome they will find that increasing fines past a certain point leads to more expenses for the government.
My efforts may have already made some difference to those applying for resident permit cards in my same situation. The police responded to my administrative complaint about the residence permit questions with the following
"The document in question has been sent to you in order to decide whether or not you should be fined for violation of the Aliens act on the grounds of residing without the required travel document and to clarify whether or not you have been residing abroad for two years or more which could result in cancellation of a residence permit. We thank you for your feedback and apologize for any inconvenience occurred to you. Unfortunately the purpose of the inquiry has not been explicitly stated in the document sent to you. We will take your feedback into account for and pay more attention into the clarity of the content when asking for additional information."
I plan to file another administrative complaint against the officer that served me the papers. She had lied to me saying my only option was to pay the fine even the papers she handed me in Finnish said I could plead not guilty to the offence. She was polite but I do have a concern about how the police are treating foreigners that can't speak Finnish. The "Rangaistusvaatimusilmoitus" is a form letter that they could easily have printed me a copy in English. I don't expect them to have all languages but English is the common language of the EU which Finland has joined.
The police clerk that was helping me looked sad. She had to go get the immigration officer once she saw the mark on my record. The police officer imposing the fine did seem happy with herself. She was more amused when I offered to go to prison instead of paying the fine. It is true that even with a 3k net income I am still sliding into debt with 2 kids. Any money I have is from before I had kids and it is slowly going away over time.
>> You broke the rules by staying without a valid passport and now you're paying for your mistakes. Very simple.
And you were aware that having a gap in your passport could result in up to 24 day fines? At least when I first posted on this board asking what the police notice was about no one had any idea they could fine me for it.
>> Yeah, 'cause having a prison sentence on your record is soooo much better than a fine.
Some people need to fight back against "police for profit" or the fines will keep growing. Fines have doubled in the last year and will continue to increase: http://www.finlandtimes.fi/travel/2015/ ... ch-EUR-20m. If enough people choose prison over the fine when they analyze the outcome they will find that increasing fines past a certain point leads to more expenses for the government.
My efforts may have already made some difference to those applying for resident permit cards in my same situation. The police responded to my administrative complaint about the residence permit questions with the following
"The document in question has been sent to you in order to decide whether or not you should be fined for violation of the Aliens act on the grounds of residing without the required travel document and to clarify whether or not you have been residing abroad for two years or more which could result in cancellation of a residence permit. We thank you for your feedback and apologize for any inconvenience occurred to you. Unfortunately the purpose of the inquiry has not been explicitly stated in the document sent to you. We will take your feedback into account for and pay more attention into the clarity of the content when asking for additional information."
I plan to file another administrative complaint against the officer that served me the papers. She had lied to me saying my only option was to pay the fine even the papers she handed me in Finnish said I could plead not guilty to the offence. She was polite but I do have a concern about how the police are treating foreigners that can't speak Finnish. The "Rangaistusvaatimusilmoitus" is a form letter that they could easily have printed me a copy in English. I don't expect them to have all languages but English is the common language of the EU which Finland has joined.
Re: residence permit card for permanent resident
Here is my response to the penal notice. Assuming I have the correct translation from google I don't think the penal provision applies to me:
Hello,
I would like to plead not guilty to the offense Asianro xxxxxxxxx.
Ulkomaalasilaki 185 of the Aliens act from 30 April 2004 states the following:
A foreign national who is “intentionally staying in the country without the required travel documents, visa, or residence permit.”
Using the word “intentional” in the provision makes me believe that the penal clause would not apply to those that are staying “unintentionally” without the required travel documents (valid passport specified in Ulkomaalasilaki 13).
I have answered all police inquires to this matter promptly and factually.
I do apologize for the unintentional gap in my passport history and will be more careful in the future not to let it happen again.
Thanks,
Michael
Hello,
I would like to plead not guilty to the offense Asianro xxxxxxxxx.
Ulkomaalasilaki 185 of the Aliens act from 30 April 2004 states the following:
A foreign national who is “intentionally staying in the country without the required travel documents, visa, or residence permit.”
Using the word “intentional” in the provision makes me believe that the penal clause would not apply to those that are staying “unintentionally” without the required travel documents (valid passport specified in Ulkomaalasilaki 13).
I have answered all police inquires to this matter promptly and factually.
I do apologize for the unintentional gap in my passport history and will be more careful in the future not to let it happen again.
Thanks,
Michael
Re: residence permit card for permanent resident
I dropped my papers off today at the Helsinkgin syyttajanvirasto to plead not guilty to the offence. You have to go through a metal detector to get in then up to the prosecutors office on the 6'th floor. A prosecutor came to the window and looked over my papers.
It was his interpretation of the law that I am responsible to remember the date of my passport expiration. That is why I would be guilty of purposefully staying in the country without a passport even if I did not remember it.
So now it goes to the police investigation stage who will submit their findings to the prosecutor to decide if he wants to bring charges against me.
I wonder what happens in court when they have an English only speaker. Do they just go through in Finnish and then find me guilty? Does the court need to provide a translator for me? Can I ask they hold the proceedings in Swedish?
It was his interpretation of the law that I am responsible to remember the date of my passport expiration. That is why I would be guilty of purposefully staying in the country without a passport even if I did not remember it.
So now it goes to the police investigation stage who will submit their findings to the prosecutor to decide if he wants to bring charges against me.
I wonder what happens in court when they have an English only speaker. Do they just go through in Finnish and then find me guilty? Does the court need to provide a translator for me? Can I ask they hold the proceedings in Swedish?