Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

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myray
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:35 pm

Kela sent my friend a mail telling him if he doesn't provide the information they requested they'll have to cancel his rights to Finnish social security.What does this actually mean?We didn't understand that at all.Please can anyone kindly explain to me what this mean? Thank you!

Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

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Flossy1978
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:38 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by Flossy1978 » Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:11 am

Exactly as you wrote it. Provide KELA with the information they want, or lose your right to Finnish Social Security.

Tell your friend to do what KELA wants. It is KELA's right to want the information they are requesting, as your friend wants money from the Government. They need to be able to make a sound decision on how much money your friend is entitled to.

There is no way around this. It is the same for all people who apply for money from the Government.

Good luck.


myray
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:22 am

This case is really confusing because kela asked the guy to tell them about all his trips abroad ,duration ,reasons for traveling abroad and when he returned to Finland for the last four years 2012-2016.How is that possible? He should also provide air tickets. My friend only have few air tickets which he has provided yet they want more infos.Is it a crime to be traveling abroad while living in Finland? It's hard


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rinso
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by rinso » Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:08 am

myray wrote:This case is really confusing because kela asked the guy to tell them about all his trips abroad ,duration ,reasons for traveling abroad and when he returned to Finland for the last four years 2012-2016.How is that possible? He should also provide air tickets. My friend only have few air tickets which he has provided yet they want more infos.Is it a crime to be traveling abroad while living in Finland? It's hard
So Kela suspects a fraud. Those suspicions don't come out of the blue, there must be indications that something fishy is going on. Probably because he wasn't available for a check or so, claiming being on a foreign trip. Now he has to prove it was just a short trip and not a prolonged stay. I he hasn't got the airline tickets, he could try showing bank receipts for the ticket. Or other documents that show he was in Finland shortly before and after the trip (parking fines... ?).


betelgeuse
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:53 pm

myray wrote:This case is really confusing because kela asked the guy to tell them about all his trips abroad ,duration ,reasons for traveling abroad and when he returned to Finland for the last four years 2012-2016.How is that possible? He should also provide air tickets. My friend only have few air tickets which he has provided yet they want more infos.Is it a crime to be traveling abroad while living in Finland? It's hard
It's not a crime. They suspect your friend has moved abroad at some point and not notified Kela. All moves (even temporary) must be notified to Kela.

http://www.kela.fi/web/en/moving-abroad


myray
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:34 pm

Interesting...I now understand where the confusion is coming from.My friend did not notify kela and he had no idea that whenever he leaves or travels out of Finland ,he needs to notify kela.We thought there's a difference between travelling abroad and resident abroad.So what if you go on holidays for a month or two? Do you still have to notify kela? It's very difficult to understand how the system works if you've never been on benefits or have any dealings with kela.My friend has been working throughout his stay in Finland ,no benefits from any where.So we don't understand what will happen if kela cancels his rights to Finnish social security since he got no more documentations to provide to them.Does it mean cancelling his residence permit?He is on a four year A work Permit.


inkku
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by inkku » Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:31 pm

I am a native Finn, and I have been dropped twice from the system. For them, if it looks you are not living PERMANENTLY in Finland, then you are out. If your friend goes all the time outside of Finland and spends very little time in the country, for sure it is seen that he is not living permanently in Finland. If there is a valid excuse to be outside of Finland (for instance working with the foreign service), then one needs to fill in an application form and to give the facts to stay covered by the system.


myray
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:44 pm

inkku wrote:I am a native Finn, and I have been dropped twice from the system. For them, if it looks you are not living PERMANENTLY in Finland, then you are out. If your friend goes all the time outside of Finland and spends very little time in the country, for sure it is seen that he is not living permanently in Finland. If there is a valid excuse to be outside of Finland (for instance working with the foreign service), then one needs to fill in an application form and to give the facts to stay covered by the system.
Dropped twice from the system? What happens if one is dropped from the system?and you were dropped twice?how and why,could you please share your experience.my friend has been holidaying abroad two to three times a year. Sometimes for a month ,sometimes for a week or two.


myray
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:47 pm

roger_roger wrote:
myray wrote:This case is really confusing because kela asked the guy to tell them about all his trips abroad ,duration ,reasons for traveling abroad and when he returned to Finland for the last four years 2012-2016.How is that possible? He should also provide air tickets. My friend only have few air tickets which he has provided yet they want more infos.Is it a crime to be traveling abroad while living in Finland? It's hard
I really liked what Kela did to your friend, I think in such cases even Police and International Crime Investigation Bureau should get involved and start questioning your friend. Who knows your friend says he was here and have joined up ISIS and was creating terror?
Ha ha ha ha...you're so funny roger,the case is still pending ...kela have given a deadline for my friend to submit the infos .They are still to make their decision.


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by Beep_Boop » Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:04 pm

We already have lots of fraud in the system, including people like you living ouside most of the time but pretending to live in Finland while spending Finnish benefits outside Finland and, in some cases, dodging Finnish taxes one way or another.
I am glad you're being investigated.
Last edited by Beep_Boop on Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


myray
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:50 pm

Beep_Boop wrote:We already have lots of fraud in the system, including people like you living ouside most of the time but pretending to love in Finland while spending Finnish benefits outside Finland and, in some cases, dodging Finnish taxes one way or another.
I am glad you're being investigated.

No...my friend has never been on benefits before.Not Everyone that lives in Finland have gone through some kind of benefits before.In this case ,this person has never collected a dime from the system.The only issue here was that he travelled abroad for sometime without notifying kela (ignorance I guess) and lost his job because he over stayed.How is it possible to dodge taxes while on benefits? Benefits are the most taxed money.The tax rate is very high as compared to someone who works.The only people who benefits from Finnish benefits are those with families.Without a family,you're just working and paying high taxes for nothing.Living on benefit is like hell...they treat you like a child.its a not a good path.He hasn't yet applied for any benefits from kela.kela just sent him a mail concerning social security.


Flossy1978
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by Flossy1978 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:03 am

It is possible they want to know how much time overall has been spent outside of the country for the current financial year. Because on benefits you can't be outside of Finland much.

Also you don't need to tell Finland if you go outside for a holiday for a week :lol:

The Government knows when you leave anyway.

Finland is a socialist country, if you don't like the way the tax system works, leave. Because it is what it is.


Rip
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by Rip » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:40 am

and lost his job because he over stayed.
Sounds something bit more than just a regular vacation trip.

Anyway, there isn't any clear rule you can fit on few lines who KELA considers a resident or not. Travelling international salesman with a FInnish employer and a family and a house here probably needs not to answer to those questions. Somebody else may get them from lesser amount abroad.


Flossy1978
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Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by Flossy1978 » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:06 pm

So he was fired because of his own wrong doing?

He's a foreigner. It doesn't feel right for the person, but it is within legal grounds for the Government to look at any one, especially foreigners wanting money a bit more than what is normal.


myray
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:44 pm

Re: Cancelling your right to Finnish Social security

Post by myray » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:27 pm

Flossy1978 wrote:So he was fired because of his own wrong doing?

He's a foreigner. It doesn't feel right for the person, but it is within legal grounds for the Government to look at any one, especially foreigners wanting money a bit more than what is normal.

Hmmmm Flossy,you're so emotional on this issue.please Just try to give advice on issues like this instead of passing judgement.People have issues and some don't really know how the system works. When kela sends a letter telling someone that they'll cancel their right to Finnish security because they've been abroad for six months doesn't mean they've applied for benefits.when you change your address from the maistraatti ,it changes automatically on kela.thats how kela got to know that this guy is abroad.sometimes we make plans but things don't go the way we plan.he just have to clarify why he went abroad to kela which he hasn't .kela is still deliberating on his right to social security.Foreigners work and pay taxes in Finland.


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