Surname after marriage

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Peach7
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:21 pm

Hi everyone. I'm a non EU, and my fiancé is Finnish. We're getting married soon.
I'm planning to take my future husband's surname.
Now the problem is that our marriage cannot be registered in my home country (the law requires him to convert to Islam, or else our marriage will NEVER be recognized and registered in there). So basically, on my passport I would be still having my old surname.
When I will apply for the residence permit to move to live with my husband (and even after that, because my only ID would still be my country's passport when I'll be in Finland), would this cause a problem? (basically my surname on the passport would be different from my surname registered in Finland's registry office)?



Surname after marriage

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Rosamunda
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Rosamunda » Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:59 pm

I'm not sure but my situation was the following:

I married my Finnish husband in France (I am British) and did not change my name in my British passport.

When I arrived in Finland, my henkilötunnus was made out to the name in my passport ie my maiden name (which wasn't an issue for me).

So, I assumed that the henkilötunnus always matched the name in the passport. I think there have been other threads on here saying the same thing.

But things might have changed since then, as I arrived here in 2001.


Peach7
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Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:31 pm

Rosamunda wrote:I'm not sure but my situation was the following:

I married my Finnish husband in France (I am British) and did not change my name in my British passport.

When I arrived in Finland, my henkilötunnus was made out to the name in my passport ie my maiden name (which wasn't an issue for me).

So, I assumed that the henkilötunnus always matched the name in the passport. I think there have been other threads on here saying the same thing.

But things might have changed since then, as I arrived here in 2001.
Thanks for your reply. But I'm sorry, I'm not sure if I could understand very well, did you actually take your husband's surname when you got married in France, and didn't register the marriage in your country?


leisl
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by leisl » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:10 am

There is absolutely no need for you to EVER take your husband's surname and about a quarter of Finnish women don't take it. Is it 100% essential that you need to change it right when you marry? Could you be ok with changing it later? It'll make life simpler.

If you get married in Finland, you simply tell them you want his surname. Easy as that, you fill out the form (I think there's a small fee) and you get registered with his name in the Finnish population register. You can then get official ID with your married name from the police.

If you get married somewhere else, you need to ask that country's policies on how it's done and whether an official change-of-name can even be done there. Then you'd bring the marriage paper to Finland (and maybe some official name change paper?), and I cannot imagine that there will be a problem applying for your residence permit, as it will clearly show that both names are the same person. But as Rosamunda indicated your ID might be wrong if they don't recognise the name change.

Anyway, if you manage to end up with a passport in your maiden name and an official Finnish ID with your married name it's quite ok (I have this combination myself, my home country still officially knows me as the name I was born with and my home embassy has even specifically told me this is fine - our relationship is not registered in my home country either).

IMO, best option is not to take his surname until you are officially in the Finnish system. A name change is very simple in Finland and can be done after that without significant expense.

When you travel home, obviously use your old passport, and continue to get that renewed in your maiden name.


Rosamunda
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:17 am

I never registered our marriage in the UK but I did have a mention added in the back of my UK passport saying that "The holder is the wife of X" (because I often had to travel alone with our children).

In France I don't think I ever changed any official papers. My Carte de Sejour (EU resident ID card) did not need renewal, so I think it remained in my own name. Unofficially we were often referred to as M et Mme Husband'sname, but officially my ID was all in my own name. At work I kept my own name (I was nearly 40 when I got married so it seemed a bit late to start changing names!)

I think you need to find someone from your own country who may have more precise information on what you can do. Would your embassy in Helsinki be able to help? Or would they just repeat what you already now?

It might be possible for you to change your name officially when/if you take Finnish citizenship (usually after 4-5 years of marriage). But I don't know for sure.


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Beep_Boop » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:26 am

Peach7 wrote:(basically my surname on the passport would be different from my surname registered in Finland's registry office)?
It it won't. Even if you choose to take your future husband's last name, Finland won't change your name in Finnish records if your name hasn't changed on your passport.
You can only unilaterally change your name in Finland if you're a Finnish citizen.

If you're a citizen of any other country than Finland (without being a Finnish citizen), you'll first have to change your name in that country, get a new passport with the new name, and then Finland will change it for you.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


betelgeuse
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:31 am

Beep_Boop wrote:
Peach7 wrote:(basically my surname on the passport would be different from my surname registered in Finland's registry office)?
It it won't. Even if you choose to take your future husband's last name, Finland won't change your name in Finnish records if your name hasn't changed on your passport.
You can only unilaterally change your name in Finland if you're a Finnish citizen.
Bogus. Finnish law applies to residents as well.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 0694#L6P26
Jos henkilöllä, jonka sukunimen määräytymisestä on kysymys, on Suomessa kotipaikka sukunimen määräytymisen perusteen syntyessä taikka sukunimeä koskevaa ilmoitusta tehtäessä, määräytyy sukunimi Suomen lain mukaan.
Beep_Boop wrote: If you're a citizen of any other country than Finland (without being a Finnish citizen), you'll first have to change your name in that country, get a new passport with the new name, and then Finland will change it for you.
Bogus.
Peach7 wrote: When I will apply for the residence permit to move to live with my husband (and even after that, because my only ID would still be my country's passport when I'll be in Finland), would this cause a problem? (basically my surname on the passport would be different from my surname registered in Finland's registry office)?
Can you change your surname in your home country without registering a marriage? The Finnish Aliens Act does have a reference that a passport must have your name on it but without significant effort I can't offer much insight. I suggest asking Migri.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0301#L2P13


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Beep_Boop » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:26 am

No, not bogus. This time you either didn't understand or you're wrong.

As a resident, who isn't a Finnish citizen, you cannot change your name in Finland unless your passport country name has changed. You'll have to change your name in your original country and then Finland will change it for you.

I've already tried to modify a wrong character in the English version of my last name. I asked both Maistraatti in person and Migri on the phone.. both gave the same exact answer: Change in your home country, get new passport with the corrected name, show us the new passport, and then (and only then) the Finnish records will change to reflect that. They both said you cannot modify your name in Finnish records if you're not a Finnish citizen, not without modifying the name in your original country.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


leisl
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by leisl » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:35 am

Beep_Boop wrote:No, not bogus. This time you either didn't understand or you're wrong.

As a resident, who isn't a Finnish citizen, you cannot change your name in Finland unless your passport country name has changed. You'll have to change your name in your original country and then Finland will change it for you.

I've already tried to modify a wrong character in the English version of my last name. I asked both Maistraatti in person and Migri on the phone.. both gave the same exact answer: Change in your home country, get new passport with the corrected name, show us the new passport, and then (and only then) the Finnish records will change to reflect that. They both said you cannot modify your name in Finnish records if you're not a Finnish citizen, not without modifying the name in your original country.
I was able to do so immediately after my marriage. My passports had not been changed and I was not a Finnish citizen at the time.

I can't say if it's just to do with being married and having the right to my partner's name, but if that's the case, the OP should also have that right.

Anyway, I did find this.

https://www.suomi.fi/suomifi/english/es ... index.html
(and more info at http://www.maistraatti.fi/en/Services/i ... gl_ulkom_7)

As you can see both your former and your newly married name would be on it. In other words, Maistraatti would have both of your names on file before you apply for your residence permit.


betelgeuse
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:56 am

Beep_Boop wrote:No, not bogus. This time you either didn't understand or you're wrong.

As a resident, who isn't a Finnish citizen, you cannot change your name in Finland unless your passport country name has changed. You'll have to change your name in your original country and then Finland will change it for you.
Do you have any written sources to back this up? I referenced the relevant Finnish legislation which contradicts what you are saying.
Beep_Boop wrote: I've already tried to modify a wrong character in the English version of my last name. I asked both Maistraatti in person and Migri on the phone.. both gave the same exact answer: Change in your home country, get new passport with the corrected name, show us the new passport, and then (and only then) the Finnish records will change to reflect that. They both said you cannot modify your name in Finnish records if you're not a Finnish citizen, not without modifying the name in your original country.
leisl wrote:There's a big difference between "fixing a mistake" and "official name change" and I think it's the former here, and why they refused to fix yours.
I agree. I have not investigated what are the rules for retroactively fixing a mistake in names. As for the advice given to Beep_Boop I must point out that recognizing foreign decisions is not limited to foreign citizens.
Vieraassa valtiossa annettu lainvoimainen päätös, jolla sukunimi on muutettu uudeksi sukunimeksi tai julistettu menetetyksi, tunnustetaan ilman eri vahvistusta päteväksi Suomessa, jos päätöksen on antanut sen valtion viranomainen, missä henkilöllä päätöksen antamisen hetkellä oli kotipaikka, tai jos päätös tunnustetaan päteväksi siinä valtiossa.
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 0694#L6P30

In the context of fixing mistakes, it would make sense, since the population register is the de facto source for the official name so I can't see how an adult would have something to retroactively fix (when they have lived their lives in Finland).


JK_Ironak
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by JK_Ironak » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:49 am

I just have to say that at the beginning of the year, in Helsinki Maistraatti, they told me I can't change my surname in Finland but I have to do it back in Croatia where I am a citizen. A friend of mine had to go through a lot of trouble, through Croatian embassy to give right of representation to her parents through her embassy to change her name without traveling back home...

Of course, it might have nothing to do with a non-EU national, who is here on residence permit...and if the info is wrong, then some people in Maistraatti don't know their job...


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Beep_Boop
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Beep_Boop » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:12 am

I guess I stand corrected.
JK_Ironak wrote:A friend of mine had to go through a lot of trouble, through Croatian embassy to give right of representation to her parents through her embassy to change her name without traveling back home..
This is exactly what I had to do as well.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


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browndude
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by browndude » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:44 am

I am from and my wife is Finnish. In both Sri Lanka and Finland, taking the husband's surname is optional,
I did not want my wife to take my last name. Can you simply keep your current last name? Interesting that
your country forces people to convert to Islam before legally allowing registration of marriage...
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Peach7
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 12:30 pm

browndude wrote:I am from and my wife is Finnish. In both Sri Lanka and Finland, taking the husband's surname is optional,
I did not want my wife to take my last name. Can you simply keep your current last name? Interesting that
your country forces people to convert to Islam before legally allowing registration of marriage...

Yeah, it is a ridiculous law :/


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browndude
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Re: Surname after marriage

Post by browndude » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:48 pm

Peach7 wrote:
browndude wrote:I am from and my wife is Finnish. In both Sri Lanka and Finland, taking the husband's surname is optional,
I did not want my wife to take my last name. Can you simply keep your current last name? Interesting that
your country forces people to convert to Islam before legally allowing registration of marriage...

Yeah, it is a ridiculous law :/
Just out of curiosity, where are you from by the way? You don't have to answer if you don't want to of course :)
ImageImage


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