Surname after marriage

How to? Read other's experiences. Find useful advice on shipping, immigration, residence permits, visas and more.
leisl
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by leisl » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:03 am

roger_roger wrote:It always amuses me people changing last name...why the hell to have Finnish last name if you do not speak Finnish?
Because you might get a job interview one day with the Finnish name.

I can say with fairly good certainty that you're not a Muslim woman whose name is Atefeh al-Hussain and has no degree, but if you were, I could almost guarantee that you could send out 500 job applications and never get a single reply. If you have a degree, perhaps you'll get one after 300. Perhaps. Your chances jump exponentially if you also use a Finnish diminutive as your first name (for example, "Anna" instead of the name on your ID like "Atefeh").

Obviously, you'll have a second hurdle when you arrive in a headscarf, but at least you'll have a chance at interview.

As for countries requiring a woman to take the husband's name... it is to do with the religion considering her to be either now "part of his family" (and no longer part of her parents' family) and/or now being his possession. YMMV depending on how strict each country's interpretation is of religious law.



Re: Surname after marriage

Sponsor:

Finland Forum Ad-O-Matic
 

Peach7
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:39 am

browndude wrote:
Peach7 wrote:
browndude wrote:I am from and my wife is Finnish. In both Sri Lanka and Finland, taking the husband's surname is optional,
I did not want my wife to take my last name. Can you simply keep your current last name? Interesting that
your country forces people to convert to Islam before legally allowing registration of marriage...

Yeah, it is a ridiculous law :/
Just out of curiosity, where are you from by the way? You don't have to answer if you don't want to of course :)


I'm from Tunisia. :)


Peach7
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:53 am

leisl wrote:
roger_roger wrote:It always amuses me people changing last name...why the hell to have Finnish last name if you do not speak Finnish?
Because you might get a job interview one day with the Finnish name.

I can say with fairly good certainty that you're not a Muslim woman whose name is Atefeh al-Hussain and has no degree, but if you were, I could almost guarantee that you could send out 500 job applications and never get a single reply. If you have a degree, perhaps you'll get one after 300. Perhaps. Your chances jump exponentially if you also use a Finnish diminutive as your first name (for example, "Anna" instead of the name on your ID like "Atefeh").

Obviously, you'll have a second hurdle when you arrive in a headscarf, but at least you'll have a chance at interview.

As for countries requiring a woman to take the husband's name... it is to do with the religion considering her to be either now "part of his family" (and no longer part of her parents' family) and/or now being his possession. YMMV depending on how strict each country's interpretation is of religious law.
I'm not a Muslim, even though I come from a Muslim country. To be honest, it might sound retro to some people, but the only reason why I wanted to take my husband's name is because I feel it's kind of romantic, and makes us feel like a family, that's all to it.
And thanks Leisl, that's really a good point that I didn't think about before. But now I'm going to consider that as well. :)


User avatar
Beep_Boop
Posts: 1969
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 pm
Location: Niflheim, Suomi

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Beep_Boop » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:32 pm

roger_roger wrote:BTW hows does people from Christian or whatever your religion is get married in Tunisia? They all convert to Islam?
In most Islamic countries, non-Muslims can marry between each other normally without any restrictions. Mixed-religion marriages are usually the ones restricted.

However, it gets even more ridiculous. In most Islamic countries (not all) the restriction only applies to non-Muslim male marrying a Muslim female. In that case, the male must convert to Islam (at least on paper) to get the marriage approved in the Islamic country, but the restriction doesn't exist the other way around; a non-Muslim female can marry a Muslim male without restrictions.
Every f*cking application is unique.You can't measure the result of your application based on random anecdotes online. Stop being a moron!


Peach7
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by Peach7 » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:03 pm

roger_roger wrote:
Peach7 wrote:I'm not a Muslim, even though I come from a Muslim country
I don't know about Tunisian laws but you might want to check again, as its bit harsh to ask to convert to Islam if two people from same religions are getting married.

BTW hows does people from Christian or whatever your religion is get married in Tunisia? They all convert to Islam?
Yes, I'm pretty-sure about this. There is a clear law that states that a marriage between a Tunisian woman (they assume we're all Muslims) and a foreign cannot happen in Tunisia/get registered unless the male converts to Islam. And he would actually have to take a real "exam" of Islam in front of the "Mufti", and sometimes they would oblige a (circumcision), so that the man "succeeds" and gets the certificate of conversion.
It's a weird and stupid law, when I asked the ministry of foreign affairs here, they told me that they don't care about MY religion, but what matters is the religion of my future husband, "because he will be the father", because religions transcends to the children from the father,(I don't know why), and it HAS to be Islam. (Weird, I know). But that is the way it is.
If a Tunisian man is going to marry a foreign woman though, they wouldn't oblige her to change her religion. It's only this way when it comes to women getting married to foreign men. And the weirdest part is that even if the man is from an Arabic Muslim country, they would STILL ask him to take that exam of conversion to Islam (and it HAS to be done in Tunisia) to "prove" to the authorities that he's a Muslim.
Now here is a stranger thing, My father is not a Muslim either, he's Tunisian,ironically he had no problem when he got married, many Tunisian people are not Muslims, there are Christians, Jewish or even Atheist, but somehow they all assume that everyone is a Muslim whether we like it or not.
As for your question, there are some "well-known" Jewish families in Tunisia, they couldn't get married to women from other "regular" families, and I know a Tunisian couple who went though this, and they had to leave the country and everything to live somewhere else... :(


User avatar
browndude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by browndude » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:52 pm

roger_roger wrote:
Peach7 wrote:I'm not a Muslim, even though I come from a Muslim country
I don't know about Tunisian laws but you might want to check again, as its bit harsh to ask to convert to Islam if two people from same religions are getting married.

BTW hows does people from Christian or whatever your religion is get married in Tunisia? They all convert to Islam?
According to google, as per widely-accepted Islamic Jurisprudence, a pious Christian or Jewish woman can marry a Muslim man without having to convert.
ImageImage


User avatar
browndude
Posts: 213
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by browndude » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:12 pm

Peach7 wrote:
roger_roger wrote:
Peach7 wrote:I'm not a Muslim, even though I come from a Muslim country
I don't know about Tunisian laws but you might want to check again, as its bit harsh to ask to convert to Islam if two people from same religions are getting married.

BTW hows does people from Christian or whatever your religion is get married in Tunisia? They all convert to Islam?
Yes, I'm pretty-sure about this. There is a clear law that states that a marriage between a Tunisian woman (they assume we're all Muslims) and a foreign cannot happen in Tunisia/get registered unless the male converts to Islam. And he would actually have to take a real "exam" of Islam in front of the "Mufti", and sometimes they would oblige a (circumcision), so that the man "succeeds" and gets the certificate of conversion.
It's a weird and stupid law, when I asked the ministry of foreign affairs here, they told me that they don't care about MY religion, but what matters is the religion of my future husband, "because he will be the father", because religions transcends to the children from the father,(I don't know why), and it HAS to be Islam. (Weird, I know). But that is the way it is.
If a Tunisian man is going to marry a foreign woman though, they wouldn't oblige her to change her religion. It's only this way when it comes to women getting married to foreign men. And the weirdest part is that even if the man is from an Arabic Muslim country, they would STILL ask him to take that exam of conversion to Islam (and it HAS to be done in Tunisia) to "prove" to the authorities that he's a Muslim.
Now here is a stranger thing, My father is not a Muslim either, he's Tunisian,ironically he had no problem when he got married, many Tunisian people are not Muslims, there are Christians, Jewish or even Atheist, but somehow they all assume that everyone is a Muslim whether we like it or not.
As for your question, there are some "well-known" Jewish families in Tunisia, they couldn't get married to women from other "regular" families, and I know a Tunisian couple who went though this, and they had to leave the country and everything to live somewhere else... :(
It is really sweet that you want to take our husband's last name for romantic reasons. As for getting a job, I do not think your "muslim-sounding" last name will be a problem if you are suitably qualified. In my workplace, there are several people with super muslim-sounding names doing very well. I must say, I explored Islam briefly and found this type of force it down your throat rules to be a real red-flag.
ImageImage


leisl
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by leisl » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:22 am

roger_roger wrote:
leisl wrote:Because you might get a job interview one day with the Finnish name.
Getting a real job and being rejected from interview is different thing.
I've no idea what your interpretation of "real job" is, but since I specifically mentioned people without quals, I'm guessing you're just looking down on someone who washes dishes? Plenty of people are keen to do that work and still can't get it due to disadvantages.
roger_roger wrote:I do not have Muslim name neither Finnish one and I have got fair share of rejection from jobs, but I believe that was more due to my qualification not being considered or I was not qualified for the job. Once I have gathered experience and knowledge I've never looked back. I lost one of my part-time job at the end of June and by 15th of July I've already signed contract with another company for part-time job (on top of my regular full-time job).
So you've done well and that's admirable. Consider the fact though that you're also male, and I assume, white, and probably not displaying anything that makes you look like a particular religion. You've overcome several things right there. Not to discount your hard work, but you had it easier than others. I too have it easier than some (Finnish first name, Finnish surname, and I "look Finnish" and "dress secular") and it's still blisteringly difficult to find work out there for a lot of people.
roger_roger wrote:you may get to the interview with Finnish name but as when they know its just to land the interview you are not just rejected but your chapter may be closed in the company for future too. This country has very small population and such information passes within bosses, managers, supervisors on a drunk night joke spreading your name on the blacklists of other companies too.
Again, for unqualified work, this is absolutely not a thing. You think anyone gives a stuff about some random person they rejected for a job, enough to go share their name with all the other recruiters? No. If it's happening in highly-qualified circles, what exactly do you think they're saying? "Hey mate, don't employ Jussi Erilainen, he came in today and OMG he's not even a Finn, he's a darkie with a turban on his head!" Um, no. They do not do this. If they are blacklisting someone it's for genuine misrepresentation of their SKILLS, and it's only in certain circles. Take it from a recruiter, all I ever got "no" from was when an employer happened to know they had a criminal record or had heard from a fellow employer that the guy couldn't do the job.
roger_roger wrote:I know and have seen all the Mohammeds, Alis or Atifs have landed jobs in Finland with their original names and their qualification. Anyone should be proud of their name and origin not ashamed.
I said nothing about shame. I advocate that everyone, regardless of who they are, should give themselves the best possible chance at firstly getting an interview, and secondly at getting that job. Of course it's still "possible" to get work without a Finnish name if you have quals. But you're still at a disadvantage compared with the obviously-Finnish person also applying. If you have several disadvantages, the usual end-result is no interview. So people really should be minimising every item that they can.

There are a lot of "politically-incorrect" things that people can help themselves by doing. For example a woman should NOT mention she is pregnant or planning children soon, even though it's illegal to reject her for that reason. Why? Because it will reduce her chances. A man should NOT say he will be doing his military service next year. A foreigner should insert into the conversation things like they've bought a home here, their partner works here, their partner is Finnish or they have themselves gained Finnish citizenship. That they intend to build a life here in Finland.

It makes no difference if people find these things unpalatable or they seem "wrong" or unnecessary. The fact is that bosses are human and they don't recruit by skill alone, but by all sorts of prejudices. Your task at interview is to convince the person you are the right fit for the job and that involves allaying any fears/prejudices they have, and by dog, use any trick that you have if it helps number ONE. So if your name gets you that interview... do it. If the interview's successful, you can just quietly tell them you've decided to go by Atefeh after all, on your first day!
Last edited by leisl on Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.


leisl
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Re: Surname after marriage

Post by leisl » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:24 am

Peach7 wrote:I'm not a Muslim, even though I come from a Muslim country. To be honest, it might sound retro to some people, but the only reason why I wanted to take my husband's name is because I feel it's kind of romantic, and makes us feel like a family, that's all to it.
And thanks Leisl, that's really a good point that I didn't think about before. But now I'm going to consider that as well. :)
:thumbsup: I also think it's a pretty awesome reason :)


Post Reply