Obstacles

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Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:12 pm

Hello Finland! I'm so glad to finally be here and would like to share my case,perhaps somebody can tell me what I did wrong:

I am an EU citizen and moved here on July 24th. The day after I arrived, I went to Vantaa police station to register my stay. There I was told that I needed an appointment to do so, and the next one would only be available 4 weeks later. Vantaa police also advised me to try Pasila police station, which I did: they took copies of my working contract and my rental agreement and promised to send me the registration by post. A couple of days later I was informed that a copy of my first payslip was required before I could be registered, so that was 4 weeks without a registration. Once I had the registration, I went to Helsinki maistraatti, they insisted on the police's registration before doing anything. According to maistraatti, it takes them 4 weeks to issue my henkilötunnus. But: no henkilötunnus, no KELA, which means: no health insurance. Nobody could answer my questions on why I had to live without health insurance, what would happen in case I needed to see a doctor ( I will see a private dentist next week since I am in pain and cannot go to a public one without the KELA card) or in case of an emergency. (I really am no longer covered by my former foreign insurance after a 4 week transitional period).

HSL is also unwilling to grant you a matkakortti stating your kotikunta as Vantaa, Helsinki or Espoo unless you have a henkilötunnus, even if you have a talonkirjaote, a rental agreement and a working contract. I don't see why.
No bank wanted to grant me a bank account without police's registration, even though I could prove I had applied for it weeks ago and had already started working. I had to get my first paycheck paid to my girlfriend's account. What if I hadn't known anybody here in Finland?

Don't get me wrong, I love this country and its people, the language especially, and after having wanted to move here for 10 years I am just happy to be allowed to do so and to be here, I just wanted to share this an, I confess, let off some steam.

Kiitos lukemisesta.

Obstacles

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Rip
Posts: 5583
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:08 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Rip » Sun Sep 25, 2016 5:40 am

Unfortunate. I'm sure you can after getting the id code to claim kela coverage from the date you moved here, which means you can also apply for the (smallish) kela refund. If you still had a sepa area bank account in your old him country I think you could have used that with your employer. Otherwise - bummer...


betelgeuse
Posts: 2620
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Obstacles

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:55 am

Garymau wrote:There I was told that I needed an appointment to do so, and the next one would only be available 4 weeks later. Vantaa police also advised me to try Pasila police station, which I did: they took copies of my working contract and my rental agreement and promised to send me the registration by post.


You should make a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman (you can just fill an online form) since they are supposed to serve you with a queue number.

http://www.oikeusasiamies.fi/Resource.p ... &sort=2014

Garymau wrote:But: no henkilötunnus, no KELA, which means: no health insurance. Nobody could answer my questions on why I had to live without health insurance, what would happen in case I needed to see a doctor ( I will see a private dentist next week since I am in pain and cannot go to a public one without the KELA card) or in case of an emergency. (I really am no longer covered by my former foreign insurance after a 4 week transitional period).


Since public officials are required to give you guidance, this is also something the Ombudsman could be interested in.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 30434#L2P8

Garymau wrote:HSL is also unwilling to grant you a matkakortti stating your kotikunta as Vantaa, Helsinki or Espoo unless you have a henkilötunnus, even if you have a talonkirjaote, a rental agreement and a working contract. I don't see why.


If you get the personal identity code from the tax office, you get it on the spot. Maistraatti would still look at whether to mark you a municipality of residence. This the part that HSL cares so it would not solve your problem with them.

https://www.vero.fi/en-US/Precise_infor ... work(21271)

Garymau wrote:No bank wanted to grant me a bank account without police's registration, even though I could prove I had applied for it weeks ago and had already started working. I had to get my first paycheck paid to my girlfriend's account. What if I hadn't known anybody here in Finland?


It's usually not possible to refuse opening basic banking functionality to ETA residents. If they do refuse, they do need to give an explanation for the reasons (not having a personal identity code is an acceptable reason).

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/2014 ... idp2682656

Before a government proposal passes, they are not required to give you online banking though. You can make a complaint by email to [email protected]

http://www.finanssivalvonta.fi/fi/Finan ... fault.aspx


Rip wrote:Unfortunate. I'm sure you can after getting the id code to claim kela coverage from the date you moved here, which means you can also apply for the (smallish) kela refund.


Public health care does not really depend on what Kela says. It's about the municipality of residence in the population register. Any way agreed that it is retroactive from the day of arrival to the country when intending to stay here permanently. You might have to go out of pocket before the administrative stuff is settled but would get reimbursed later. They handle payments with invoices so with the time to pay, the administrative stuff would hopefully be dealt with before one must pay the invoice (with the notices you have many weeks).


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:38 am

Huomenta, kiitos vastauksista!
It's not so much about complaining, though I have considered it numerous times. I was more intrested in other people's opinions on how my case was/is being handled. I will hopefully receive the henkilötunnus within the next 2 weeks and everything will be fine.
I would once more like to thank you for reading & replying! Should you feel like reading it, I have posted another question about registering & insuring a vehicle only for the day I buy it which I hope will be visible on this board soon.


Rosamunda
Posts: 10608
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 12:07 am

Re: Obstacles

Post by Rosamunda » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:54 am

I'm not familiar with your personal situation but you do say you are an EU citizen. Normally, as the holder of an EU healthcard, you should be able to claim for public healthcare in Finland through the country that issued your EU healthcard for up to three months (the transition period).

In practice, this covers only emergency treatment and you would be charged here as any Finnish citizen would be. However, your country's healthcare foots the bill. (When I used my EU healthcard in France while on holiday, I was refunded immediately in France. Presumably they then charged the costs back to Finland.)

By the way, if you have a job, you might have occupational healthcare through your employer. So check with them what the system is and which clinic they use. I don't think you would have a problem getting treatment that way, even without a henkilötunnus.


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:24 am

I hold a German passport, but moved here from Switzerland. Perhaps that is why the trabsitional period is only one month, not three (I specificly asked from my former Swiss health insurance company how long it is).
You are right, I can get healthcare through my employer, but is does neither cover teeth nor emergencies during the night or on weekends.
Don't get me wrong, I will live, I just find it hard to believe that I am being treated correctly by the authorities. Funny though, when I went to verohallinnon toimituspiste and asked for a tax card, they only gave me a tax-at-source card,since I had only a rental agreement and a working contract. The tax-at-source card is only meant for people working in Finland temporarily, which I do not (that's also mentioned in my working contract.) Nobody there mentioned that they could also grant me a henkilötunnus.


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:30 am

No, they do not cover emergencies, I was just pointing out that if something happens on while I am ar work, there will not be a drama. But what if something happens at night or at the weekend?

You only get the blue EU card when you actually have national health insurance, which I do not.Sure, I have my old Swiss one, but it is not valid anymore.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2620
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Obstacles

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:58 pm

roger_roger wrote:
Garymau wrote:they only gave me a tax-at-source card

i.e. 60% stuff? ouch, but why worry if you are here for long, you'll get nice gift from government for next year's Christmas (as tax return of overpaid tax). Also once you have PIN, you can ask for new tax card.


tax-at-source card = lähdeverokortti. It's mainly for people who are not considered tax resident. 60% is for people without a tax card (or for the situations where you must actually be withheld 60%).


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:19 pm

So, for those who care, just a quick update: Nothing has happened in the meantime. Zero.
I called maistraatti on October 10th and was told that they had sent a letter to me on October 6th containing my henkilötunnus, but that Poliisi had actually issued the henkilötunnus and must have forgotten to send me a copy. Hah? Since when does the police take care if personal ID numbers, I thought all they did was to issue the registration certificate? And, if the police took care of the personal ID, what did maistraatti do 4 weeks long?
I asked to be told the id number on the phone and explained my situation, I also could have answered questions to identify myself as the person whose ID number we were talking about, but this was delined.
Of course I have not received the letter, yet. So from Helsinki to Vantaa it takes more than 7 working days, or it was lost.
I have filed a complaint with the parliament`s ombudsman, he should look into what poliisi, verohallinto, KELA and helsingin maistraatti are doing to me. This charade cannot be accepted, even though I understand that there is a lot of pressure on the system due to the whole refugee situation.
What`s funny: I had to see a dentist last week, no public one would see me since it was not an emergency (still, I had to go in order to avoid the problem getting worse) and I had no KELA insurance, so I had to go to a private one. I wonder how long the fight with KELA is going to be, they should pay the extra cost for the private dentist (just the difference from public to private), since I had no other choice but to go there. If KELA had said "okay, so you have registered and are waiting for the personal ID, we will grant you insurance from now on" there wouldn`t be a problem.


betelgeuse
Posts: 2620
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Obstacles

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:32 pm

Garymau wrote:I called maistraatti on October 10th and was told that they had sent a letter to me on October 6th containing my henkilötunnus, but that Poliisi had actually issued the henkilötunnus and must have forgotten to send me a copy. Hah? Since when does the police take care if personal ID numbers, I thought all they did was to issue the registration certificate?
PICs are created by the population register center, not poliisi or maistraatti.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2 ... 0661#L2P11

Since 2014 it has been possible to make the request to tax authorities or migri. They then relay it to Maistraatti for processing into the population register.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/alkup/2009 ... idp2521008
http://www.finlex.fi/fi/esitykset/he/20 ... idp3976672
Garymau wrote: I asked to be told the id number on the phone and explained my situation, I also could have answered questions to identify myself as the person whose ID number we were talking about, but this was denied.
Which is good. It happens too much that acceptable identification over the phone is knowing some personal details which makes identity theft too easy.


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:35 pm

Hey, so I finally have received my PIN by post, as well as an extract from the Population Register.
Now it will only take KELA another 4 weeks to process my application and then I might be all set.
I would like to thank you all for your support.


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Sun Nov 13, 2016 7:58 pm

Hei Roger,

minulla on saksaleinen henkilökortti, se riittää tavallisesti....


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Pursuivant
Posts: 15094
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:51 am
Location: Bath & Wells

Re: Obstacles

Post by Pursuivant » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:31 am

Don't try to be cute, you get asked ausweis you show ausweis. You show a german, they get spiritual orgasm and you write again here and whine... they want to see your person number in the ausweis... just get one.
"By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes."


Upphew
Posts: 9910
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:55 pm
Location: Lappeenranta

Re: Obstacles

Post by Upphew » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:45 am

Pursuivant wrote:Don't try to be cute, you get asked ausweis you show ausweis. You show a german, they get spiritual orgasm and you write again here and whine... they want to see your person number in the ausweis... just get one.
This. Most of the time no one is interested about the Garymay part of your ID, they are interested in the 121280-123G
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
Visa is for visiting, Residence Permit for residing.


Garymau
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:23 pm

Re: Obstacles

Post by Garymau » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:59 pm

So, on October 19th I have filed an application for KELA coverage.
According to their website, handling those takes 4 weeks.
Now after 5 weeks I have asked them about the status, they do not even bother to reply (I have waited for 3 days now for them to answer).
Very disappointing I must say.


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