Real anchovies

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harryc
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Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:30 am

Anyone found real anchovies in the PK-area?

Not referring to the sprat/kilohaili - the sweet Swedish stuff

http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/anchovy.htm



Real anchovies

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Rosamunda
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by Rosamunda » Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:28 pm

Stockmann Herkku. Deli Deli in Hakaniemi kauppahalli, la Boutique French deli in Espoonlahti.
Assuming you mean canned rather than fresh...


harryc
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:24 am

Thanks

Checked prices in those places - extremely expensive compared with what's available in Italy, France, Spain and US - so will await next trip of my own or a friend/relative


Upphew
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by Upphew » Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:08 pm

harryc wrote:Thanks

Checked prices in those places - extremely expensive compared with what's available in Italy, France, Spain and US - so will await next trip of my own or a friend/relative
Just like when you look for mämmi or salmiakki in Italy, Spain, France or US.

edit. you do know that the fish you are looking for is called sardelli here? You can thank Germans for the confusion as they decided to call their pickled small fishes Anchosen when they sold them to us ;)

edit2. dunno if that makes it any easier to find though
http://google.com http://translate.google.com http://urbandictionary.com
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harryc
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:27 pm

Just like when you look for mämmi or salmiakki in Italy, Spain, France or US.
What on earth are you talking about???? Real anchovies are a mainstay of a big part of European (and thus much Ameriucan) cuisines! There is no point trying to compare to some Finnish whacky eccentricity such as Mämmi.

When I came to Finland there was no real pasta, no olive oil, no champignons, no herbs such as oregano, no Parmaggiano etc etc. They've now arrived and they are for the most part at sensible prices. There are still some products which are choice places for the price gougers.

+++
you do know that the fish you are looking for is called sardelli here?
No, no, no -- You obviously didn't bother to look at any links inn the various posts nor noticed the Latin names of species. Sardellies are spiced and sweetened SPRATS - and are about as far a cry from real anchovies as they can be! Try again -- http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/anchovy.htm


Upphew
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by Upphew » Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:18 am

harryc wrote:
Just like when you look for mämmi or salmiakki in Italy, Spain, France or US.
What on earth are you talking about???? Real anchovies are a mainstay of a big part of European (and thus much Ameriucan) cuisines! There is no point trying to compare to some Finnish whacky eccentricity such as Mämmi.

When I came to Finland there was no real pasta, no olive oil, no champignons, no herbs such as oregano, no Parmaggiano etc etc. They've now arrived and they are for the most part at sensible prices. There are still some products which are choice places for the price gougers.
Mämmi and salmiakki are a big part of Finnish cuisine! Wacky eccentricity my ass! I effing ate ½kg of salmiakki last weekend.

harryc wrote:
you do know that the fish you are looking for is called sardelli here?
No, no, no -- You obviously didn't bother to look at any links inn the various posts nor noticed the Latin names of species. Sardellies are spiced and sweetened SPRATS - and are about as far a cry from real anchovies as they can be! Try again -- http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/anchovy.htm
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardelli Does this fish's Latin name match?
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browndude
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by browndude » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:35 pm

harryc wrote:
Just like when you look for mämmi or salmiakki in Italy, Spain, France or US.
What on earth are you talking about???? Real anchovies are a mainstay of a big part of European (and thus much Ameriucan) cuisines! There is no point trying to compare to some Finnish whacky eccentricity such as Mämmi.

When I came to Finland there was no real pasta, no olive oil, no champignons, no herbs such as oregano, no Parmaggiano etc etc. They've now arrived and they are for the most part at sensible prices. There are still some products which are choice places for the price gougers.

+++
you do know that the fish you are looking for is called sardelli here?
No, no, no -- You obviously didn't bother to look at any links inn the various posts nor noticed the Latin names of species. Sardellies are spiced and sweetened SPRATS - and are about as far a cry from real anchovies as they can be! Try again -- http://www.dlc.fi/~marianna/gourmet/anchovy.htm
Europe is a continent and not a country. So you cannot really generalize and say that " Real anchovies are a mainstay of a big part of European (and thus much Ameriucan) cuisines!". Are you American by any chance?
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llewellyn
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by llewellyn » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:56 am

So those anjovis-cans are not actually anchovies as meant in this thread? You live and you learn! I've been wondering about anchovy pizzas...


Rosamunda
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by Rosamunda » Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:18 pm

The European anchovy is Engraulis encrasicolus

https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/marine_s ... anchovy_en
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_anchovy

They are expensive because they have been over-fished, have disappeared in many areas and the quotas are now strictly controlled by the EU in an effort to revive the supplies.

The last time I ate https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchois_de_Collioure (the real thing) was over ten years ago (in Collioure) but apparently many of the fisheries on the Mediterranean coast of France have closed down, as well as those on the Bay of Biscay.

The anchovies that are sold in supermarkets all over France, Spain, Finland etc are Engraulis ringens from South America: Argentina, Peru etc
https://www.drive.be/fr/epicerie/conser ... _ref=D0615
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_anchoveta
https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perunsardelli

Here are some genuine Mediterranean anchovy fillets: http://www.lesoliviersdelacanterrane.co ... D=12353398
The price is 7.70e for 150g which is just over 50€/kg. You said you checked the price in Stockmann, how much were they there?

The supplies (and therefore the prices) fluctuate. As stated in Wikipedia, El Nino can also have a negative effect on supplies, as well as over fishing.
So, in a nutshell, you get what you pay for. If it's Engraulis encrasicolus expect to pay around 50€/kg, maybe a bit less if they are from Morocco If it's Engraulis ringens then the price (canned) is about 35€/kg (based on current retail prices in France).

If you are not sure what you are buying, look for the country of origin on the can (it has to be stated) and/or the species.


harryc
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:22 am

Yes - the correct term in Finnish is sardelle or sardelli.

The terms for these two, very different fishes have been bandied around so much that even producers and sellers mix up these terms willy-nilly. One Italian importer calls their 'real anchovy' import 'anjovis' in Finnish - and that term should get you - in the Finnish language - the Abba 'sprat' - marinated with all kinds of spices and SUGAR! This import - will be fine for pizza - but horrible for Jansonin Kiusaus! (actually - on re-thinking - real anchovies used for JK would probably not be horrible - just QUITE different - BUT Abba's 'anjovis' on pizza would be pretty horrible IMO)

A net search will find the southern Mediterranen 'real anchovy' to be availabe at 30-40€/kilo or less -- NET WEIGHT (Important!). Stockmann was some 100-150€ - as well as Deli-Deli! It also pays to give some attention to the packing oil - often olive - but also sunflower - with a price difference.

European 'cuisine' is indeed of French, Italian and Spanish origins - and one will find the 'real anchovy' used quite often as a 'umami donor.' That continues throughout Europe - there are always the local cuisines with Surströmming, Goulash, Sauerkraut, Kielbasa, Moussaka, etc. but the standard menu in most European restaurants will consist of items from those three countries. The Brits have their own 'continent' - but you'll find pretty much the same there - save for the Marmite Casserole, etc.

Incidentally, the anchovy is - when fresh - the boquerone - a typical 'tapas.'
Last edited by harryc on Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.


Rosamunda
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by Rosamunda » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:15 pm

When roasting a leg of lamb, try putting a few slivers of anchovy into the meat with garlic and rosemary. Delicious. The flavour is not fishy at all, just slightly salty and yummy. Something like this: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... amb-recipe


llewellyn
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by llewellyn » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:28 pm

harryc wrote: the Abba 'sprat' - marinated with all kinds of spices and SUGAR! This import - will be fine for pizza - but horrible for Jansonin Kiusaus! (actually - on re-thinking - real anchovies used for JK would probably not be horrible - just QUITE different - BUT Abba's 'anjovis' on pizza would be pretty horrible IMO)
I'm somewhat familiar with various Estonian versions of herring and "kilu" (sprot?) and their unsugary marinades are so much better than our Swedish style semi-sweet marinades. What is it with this Swedish obsession with sugar - they also put it into bread which is rather eccentric...


harryc
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:03 pm

What is it with this Swedish obsession with sugar - they also put it into bread which is rather eccentric...
The strange thing here is that 30 years ago Finns used to really mock the Swedes for their sugar in bread - and elsewhere. The flagship was Pågens with their 'desserts posing as bread.'

Please go down the supermarket aisle - equipped with a magnifying glass - and look at the labels on bread (INCLUDING THE SACRED RYE!!) and find that almost ALL will say SUGAR and/or SYRUP!!!


llewellyn
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by llewellyn » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:21 pm

harryc wrote:Please go down the supermarket aisle - equipped with a magnifying glass - and look at the labels on bread (INCLUDING THE SACRED RYE!!) and find that almost ALL will say SUGAR and/or SYRUP!!!
Surely not, the horror!!!


harryc
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Re: Real anchovies

Post by harryc » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:59 am

Surely not, the horror!!!
Hope you're not being sarcastic!

Actually Diabetes is a pretty horrible disease - I was in the hospital this past spring - and 2 patients next to me had had their legs amputated - they were in auddible agony for 24 hours.


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