Ceiling lamp wiring

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m4dj4ck
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:49 pm

Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by m4dj4ck » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:54 pm

Hello all,

I have been browsing some threads about the ceiling lamp wiring system here in Finland in this board but still could not figure out what is the correct way to install the ceiling lamp. I just purchased an Ikea lamp that comes with blue and brown wiring. On my living room's wiring, there are two wires coming out, which are grey and yellow. I have attached the pic here :Image

I am not sure which wire should go to which wire. Hope any of you could help in this. Thanks!!



Ceiling lamp wiring

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PJG
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by PJG » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:46 pm

It won't matter Jack,

Just connect a wire to each. A lamp will light either way. If it's an LED and it doesn't work, assuming it works like a small LED in a circuit, swap the wires and it should light right up.

The wiring colours in our two apartments are different colours, red and black in one, blue and white in the other.

Go figure! :roll:


Jukka Aho
Posts: 5238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by Jukka Aho » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:41 pm

m4dj4ck wrote:I have been browsing some threads about the ceiling lamp wiring system here in Finland in this board but still could not figure out what is the correct way to install the ceiling lamp. I just purchased an Ikea lamp that comes with blue and brown wiring. On my living room's wiring, there are two wires coming out, which are grey and yellow. I have attached the pic here.
I am not sure which wire should go to which wire. Hope any of you could help in this. Thanks!!
The lamp’s brown wire should be connected to the live wire in the ceiling, and the lamp’s blue wire to the neutral wire in the ceiling.

In new installations, the neutral wire is always blue, and the live wire can be either black, brown, or gray, depending on the phase (L1, L2, and L3, respectively). If there’s a protective earth wire, it is marked with alternating yellow/green stripes.

In older installations, neutral is gray or white, and protective earth is red, or sometimes the other way around if one or the other is not needed and the factory-made cable had that wire unused. Live wires can be of some random color.

So I guess yours might be an older installation where the brightly-colored wire is live and the gray one could be neutral, since otherwise it does not make much sense — a modern installation would always have a blue wire coming from the ceiling, and you don’t seem to have that. But don’t take my word for it. Test it using one of these, for instance.
znark


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by podzap » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:30 am

Actually, it does not matter if the phase and neutral wires are reversed - the voltage potential is between the two wires, period. In other words, you touch those two wires together and you get 230 volts at 10 amps (since it's a lamp circuit).

More concerning is the lack of a ground wire. With a metal lamp and no ground wire, you could potentially get a very shocking experience when changing a bulb if you happened to leave the lamp switched on.

Judging by the photo, this is an illegal installation i.e. not done by an electrician.


riku2
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by riku2 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:37 am

podzap wrote:More concerning is the lack of a ground wire. With a metal lamp and no ground wire, you could potentially get a very shocking experience when changing a bulb if you happened to leave the lamp switched on.
The ground wire is not mandatory and I think standards have changed and only now require it. In my house (built in the 70's) even the wall sockets do not have an earth (except for those in the kitchen/bathrooms) and are of the type fifth from the left "Europe/Russia non-grounded CEE7/16 Europlug".
This seems total madness since you can plug in an appliance that does need an earth connection into any socket. Finns are somewhat paranoid about water (you will not find taps for dishwashers/washing machines in the UK/Germany/France) but happy to have power sockets in bathrooms and old standards allowed these non-earthed sockets that you can fit earthed plugs into.

Image


Jukka Aho
Posts: 5238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by Jukka Aho » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:13 pm

podzap wrote:Actually, it does not matter if the phase and neutral wires are reversed - the voltage potential is between the two wires, period. In other words, you touch those two wires together and you get 230 volts at 10 amps (since it's a lamp circuit).
Of course, but if you have any color coding standards for electrical installations at all, and the wire coloring in the ceiling light fixture allows you to follow them to the very extreme of the circuit, it does no harm to make it a habit of following the standard to the extreme end of the circuit.
podzap wrote:More concerning is the lack of a ground wire. With a metal lamp and no ground wire, you could potentially get a very shocking experience when changing a bulb if you happened to leave the lamp switched on.
Theoretically you could have an incorrectly done installation where the light switch would make/break the circuit on the neutral wire side instead of the live wire side. You wouldn’t notice this when changing bulbs (unless touching the insides of the socket) but you would be in for a surprise when changing the light fixture itself...

Installation errors are sometimes discovered or could be present in old buildings — especially if the previous dweller has done some unauthorized DIY renovation/alterations/replacements — so it’ṣ always best to check the wires for a potential with a test pen and preferably switch off the entire circuit from the breaker panel (instead of just from the wall switch) before doing any installation work.
Last edited by Jukka Aho on Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
znark


Jukka Aho
Posts: 5238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 1:46 am
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by Jukka Aho » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:26 pm

riku2 wrote:Finns are somewhat paranoid about water (you will not find taps for dishwashers/washing machines in the UK/Germany/France) but happy to have power sockets in bathrooms and old standards allowed these non-earthed sockets that you can fit earthed plugs into.
Earthed sockets were “always” required for bathrooms, kitchens (close to a faucet/sink), damp/unheated spaces such as cellars and garages, and outdoor installations.

They have been the only allowed option for all new installations since July 1997. (You can still install unearthed sockets in old buildings, though, in a pre-existing circuit which has no earthed sockets — as the wiring for the circuit is then typically missing the PEN conductor. But if the electrical wiring is that old, it typically gets replaced and upgraded during a suitably large renovation project, along with the sockets and light switches.)

Exception: The space-saving euro wall sockets (such as those pictured on this page) are allowed too, but likely not in those damp places. While double insulated Class II appliances with euro plugs have been commonplace for a long time, the matching sockets are a relatively new thing.
znark


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Ceiling lamp wiring

Post by podzap » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:50 am

Jukka Aho wrote:Installation errors are sometimes discovered or could be present in old buildings — especially if the previous dweller has done some unauthorized DIY renovation/alterations/replacements — so it’ṣ always best to check the wires for a potential with a test pen and preferably switch off the entire circuit from the breaker panel (instead of just from the wall switch) before doing any installation work.
Looking at the picture in the OP, this is the case. That installation has not been done by an electrician. It is exceedingly difficult to even purchase wrong-colored electrical wiring in Finland since at least 15-20 years. And in the event that wrong colored wiring is used for some strange reason, it is required to label each end of it with properly colored electrical tape. You normally only find this wire color deviation within 4-wire setups (3-wire if ground is missing), where the wires can be multiple colors between stairway switches (porraskytkimet) - not to the lamp socket itself.


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