Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

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RumpaliPoika
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:48 pm

Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by RumpaliPoika » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:08 pm

Hi,

Whilst learning Finnish (through an accredited means) are their any benefits I'd be eligible for in Finland. Just trying to figure out if I can study Finnish 'full time' on a basic unemployment benefit/bursary or something of that ilk. Or would I need to study Finnish in my own time and work? I know it seems like I am being rather presumptuous but just after information, I am happy to work and am not expecting 'free money' etc. just trying to find out what's available to an EU citizen on moving here.

Thanks for your time



Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

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betelgeuse
Posts: 2735
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by betelgeuse » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:54 pm

RumpaliPoika wrote:Whilst learning Finnish (through an accredited means) are their any benefits I'd be eligible for in Finland. Just trying to figure out if I can study Finnish 'full time' on a basic unemployment benefit/bursary or something of that ilk. Or would I need to study Finnish in my own time and work? I know it seems like I am being rather presumptuous but just after information, I am happy to work and am not expecting 'free money' etc. just trying to find out what's available to an EU citizen on moving here.
If you have assets to prove you can support yourself, you can register your right of residence. You can then register as unemployed jobseeker and get unemployment benefits. However, using unemployed benefits means you can be legally deported. Based on other threads, this seems the best fit for your situation:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/wo ... dex_en.htm


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by podzap » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:07 pm

Any person who comes to Finland expecting money from the government should be deported. I've lived here almost half of my life and I've been through good times, bad times, etc, but have never once asked the government for money. That's the way it should be.


PJG
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by PJG » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:54 pm

podzap wrote:Any person who comes to Finland expecting money from the government should be deported. I've lived here almost half of my life and I've been through good times, bad times, etc, but have never once asked the government for money. That's the way it should be.
If you think it's some kind of 'badge of honour' to pay taxes and then burn through your savings or whatever, refusing to ask for access to the benefits your taxes fund in the first place (out of a misplaced sense of pride), you could quite rightly be labelled as a fool.

There are agreements in place between various EU member states to provide access to unemployment benefits / job seekers allowances if all your stamps are paid up in your home country. I expect, based on the ignorant tone of your response that you are equally ignorant of this fact.

All the OP is asking is whether or not there are any such benefits which would be available to them here. It's a fair question and whether you like it or not, sometimes a person IS entitled to something which you believe they are not.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroa ... -allowance


podzap
Posts: 151
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:32 am

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by podzap » Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:01 am

PJG wrote: If you think it's some kind of 'badge of honour' to pay taxes and then burn through your savings or whatever, refusing to ask for access to the benefits your taxes fund in the first place (out of a misplaced sense of pride), you could quite rightly be labelled as a fool.

There are agreements in place between various EU member states to provide access to unemployment benefits / job seekers allowances if all your stamps are paid up in your home country. I expect, based on the ignorant tone of your response that you are equally ignorant of this fact.
It is actually illegal in Finland to attempt to claim social benefits while having money in the bank, owning an apartment or a car, etc. The authorities can see your bank account balances and will deny you access to benefits until the cash is gone and a minimum of 3 months have passed. In this country, hiding money in a foreign account (or a pile of cash under your mattress) while attempting to claim benefits (this crime is called "defrauding the government") can land you with more jail time than murder. If you are on benefits and for some reason the police search you (maybe you are drunk and disorderly, or participating in a protest against the police) and find a large amount of cash in your wallet, they cash will be confiscated and you will go to jail pending prosecution for defrauding the government.

There's nothing ignorant about my response. I have read great portions of the laws, multiple times, and I understand them well. I also follow the news quite sharply, and I have seen the flavor of the prosecution style in action over a long period of time.

One thing is true: If your residence permit is based on anything else than family ties, and you ask the government for social benefits then you can forget the chance of obtaining citizenship by application, like forever. Even if the residence permit is based on family ties and you have asked the government for more than a very minimal amount of social benefits, your application can be denied. EU agreement or no, does not matter.

There are people in this country, native Finns, who are surviving on 2 EUR of food money per day and then a foreigner wants to move here and study on social benefits? Good luck and let me know how that works out for you.


PJG
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:13 pm

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by PJG » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:03 am

Wrong in many ways...


betelgeuse
Posts: 2735
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:24 am

Re: Possible bursary/benefits for EU (English) citizen

Post by betelgeuse » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:38 pm

podzap wrote: It is actually illegal in Finland to attempt to claim social benefits while having money in the bank, owning an apartment or a car, etc. The authorities can see your bank account balances and will deny you access to benefits until the cash is gone and a minimum of 3 months have passed.
It is not illegal to apply to any benefits. Income support requires you to liquidate assets (but not your own apartment). Most other benefits do not depend on assets (they can depend on income).

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 1412#L2P12
podzap wrote: In this country, hiding money in a foreign account (or a pile of cash under your mattress) while attempting to claim benefits (this crime is called "defrauding the government") can land you with more jail time than murder.
Murder (murha) always carries a life sentence which is the maximum you can get.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/1 ... 039001#L21
podzap wrote: If you are on benefits and for some reason the police search you (maybe you are drunk and disorderly, or participating in a protest against the police) and find a large amount of cash in your wallet, they cash will be confiscated and you will go to jail pending prosecution for defrauding the government.
Using what mechanism will the police know you are on income support?
podzap wrote: There's nothing ignorant about my response. I have read great portions of the laws, multiple times, and I understand them well. I also follow the news quite sharply, and I have seen the flavor of the prosecution style in action over a long period of time.
Then you should have no trouble explaining why my links to Finlex do not seem to agree with your statements and justify your opinions with sources.
podzap wrote: One thing is true: If your residence permit is based on anything else than family ties, and you ask the government for social benefits then you can forget the chance of obtaining citizenship by application, like forever. Even if the residence permit is based on family ties and you have asked the government for more than a very minimal amount of social benefits, your application can be denied. EU agreement or no, does not matter.
Hogwash.
podzap wrote:There are people in this country, native Finns, who are surviving on 2 EUR of food money per day and then a foreigner wants to move here and study on social benefits?
Income support is more than that per day. Unfortunately it can happen in some corner cases (especially for shorter timer periods). Still I find this an unfair comparison. If for example, the study on social benefits results in, for example, productive work in the private sector it can be a reasonable investment.


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