IKEA - "cheats"

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harryc
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IKEA - "cheats"

Post by harryc » Thu May 11, 2017 11:08 am

Overall I'm glad there is an IKEA - here and elsewhere - it has affected competition positively.

But I have found that they, too, are not beyond shady practices.

They have a popular product - 'Billy' shelves.

I bought a number of them some years ago and quite satisfied with quality, price and simple aesthetics.

I needed one more 'assembly' and went out to their Espoo store to get the 80x105 model - white.

Put together with my grandson - and placed it next to an older 'Billy.'

A shelf was 'missing' - looked all over if we had left it in box, etc.

Looked at instructions - and saw only 2 'in-between' shelves. Looked at the other 4 I had at home - 3 'in-between' shelves on all!

++++

A clear nasty money-grabbing trick - went back to shop (time and gas) and found the 3rd shelf with price of 10€ - 33% of WHOLE assembly. Asked at Info desk and they said 'Yes - there used to be 3' - and we all saw ethics going down the drain. They immediately said there should be a change in product designation, etc. - as it is perhaps IKEA's most classic product.

Nobody could think of any 'product improvement' - it was simply 'profit improvement.

I asked at that Info desk and the main Info desk if there was an address I could write to - they all said it was prohibited to give out any other contact than 'customer service' which the world knows is a total oxymoron.

I have imported and priced hundreds and hundreds of products over the years - done umpteen-umpteen catalogs, ads, etc.I would never DREAM of having a product and give it the same name and DECREASE either quality or content!! And I have never ever seen such a trick attempted by ANYONE!

And IKEA management closes themselves into a fortress where they need not suffer hearing any feedback.



IKEA - "cheats"

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Upphew
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by Upphew » Thu May 11, 2017 11:21 am

harryc wrote:Overall I'm glad there is an IKEA - here and elsewhere - it has affected competition positively.

But I have found that they, too, are not beyond shady practices.

They have a popular product - 'Billy' shelves.

I bought a number of them some years ago and quite satisfied with quality, price and simple aesthetics.

I needed one more 'assembly' and went out to their Espoo store to get the 80x105 model - white.

Put together with my grandson - and placed it next to an older 'Billy.'

A shelf was 'missing' - looked all over if we had left it in box, etc.

Looked at instructions - and saw only 2 'in-between' shelves. Looked at the other 4 I had at home - 3 'in-between' shelves on all!

++++

A clear nasty money-grabbing trick - went back to shop (time and gas) and found the 3rd shelf with price of 10€ - 33% of WHOLE assembly. Asked at Info desk and they said 'Yes - there used to be 3' - and we all saw ethics going down the drain. They immediately said there should be a change in product designation, etc. - as it is perhaps IKEA's most classic product.

Nobody could think of any 'product improvement' - it was simply 'profit improvement.

I asked at that Info desk and the main Info desk if there was an address I could write to - they all said it was prohibited to give out any other contact than 'customer service' which the world knows is a total oxymoron.

I have imported and priced hundreds and hundreds of products over the years - done umpteen-umpteen catalogs, ads, etc.I would never DREAM of having a product and give it the same name and DECREASE either quality or content!! And I have never ever seen such a trick attempted by ANYONE!

And IKEA management closes themselves into a fortress where they need not suffer hearing any feedback.
My, quite a bit smaller, experience with Ikea and their customer service was great. Delivery was a day late and there was missing component, so they got me the missing part and refunded the delivery fee. All handled by their 'customer service'.
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harryc
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by harryc » Thu May 11, 2017 11:32 am

My, quite a bit smaller, experience with Ikea and their customer service was great. Delivery was a day late and there was missing component, so they got me the missing part and refunded the delivery fee. All handled by their 'customer service'.
'Customer service' would not, in any case, be able to give any credible reasons (except greed) for decreasing number of shelves - and they certainly would not give the names of any administrative personnel that make those decisions.

Yes - I have had IKEA CS post me parts they didn't include etc.And there are CS's that actually do what they are supposed to. But I also see notices of someone winning Lotto or Veikaus in Ilta-lehti on occasion.

I have had CS people tell me they hope someone would come up with another term for 'asiakaspalvelu' - as they know very well what the general public thinks (they have also said they keep asking 'upstairs' for more authority and access to knowledge so they could actually solve problems. Few companies listen.

In any case - this post was not about CS - it was simply about an unethical practice by IKEA management!


riku2
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by riku2 » Thu May 11, 2017 2:21 pm

I would never DREAM of having a product and give it the same name and DECREASE either quality or content!! And I have never ever seen such a trick attempted by ANYONE!
it happens all the time. products become smaller or weigh less. the outside clearly states the weight though. You only have to look at some of the UK Toblerone bars to see this taken to extreme - they look more like bike racks.
Your only complaint to ikea wold be if the catalogue or online description says there are three shelves but they only include two when you buy it.

If you don't like the practice then don't buy, or if paid already then take your bookshelf back. they do have a long returns window and in my experience don't ask any awkward questions if you do decide to return something.


harryc
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by harryc » Thu May 11, 2017 3:49 pm

I believe food items are quite a different matter - especially the logistics of a chocolate bar.

The IKEA case has one going to the pick-up place for a 'supposedly known' item - and taking it to a 'kassa' and finding out after it is built that they have removed a very necessary part - and they are licking their chops waiting for you to come back to give them another 10e. (That shelf system makes no sense with only 2 'in-between' shelves btw)

No one would even be allowed to ask for money back as they will be told they should have gone upstairs in that cray maze and looked at the product. Or suspected that IKEA was pulling a fast-one and investigated how many shelves were NOW included for a product previously bought.

The option is not 'to not buy' (not appropriate as one will not find a similar shelf to match) - but to let these clowns know they are abusing trust.

And as I said I have never seen this kind of cheating with anything else - save the mentioned 'food industry' but then we are dealing with different price levels and integral packages with weights clearly marked (if following laws) on the outside of relatively small pacakges.


Upphew
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by Upphew » Thu May 11, 2017 4:40 pm

harryc wrote:And as I said I have never seen this kind of cheating with anything else - save the mentioned 'food industry' but then we are dealing with different price levels and integral packages with weights clearly marked (if following laws) on the outside of relatively small pacakges.
Tape measure. They used to have metal housing. Now they have plastic housing which is painted to look like metal.
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PJG
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by PJG » Thu May 11, 2017 4:41 pm

The content of everything from cars to computers and magazines to foodstuffs is constantly changing.

Ikea have done nothing wrong. The mistake is your own. You made an assumption that your Billy shelf would be identifical to what you'd bought a few years before, which was proven to be a poor assumption. Now you're looking to bring ethics and morals into the discussion you've started.

Why?

You can bring it back and pay more attention next time to the little picture on the box, the demonstration model in the showroom, the image on the label on the pallet racks downstairs, the app on your phone, the website....

I mean come on man, it's not like you didn't have plenty of bloody chances to spot the difference. That is literally child's play.


Upphew
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by Upphew » Thu May 11, 2017 4:48 pm

PJG wrote:The content of everything from cars to computers and magazines to foodstuffs is constantly changing.

Ikea have done nothing wrong. The mistake is your own. You made an assumption that your Billy shelf would be identifical to what you'd bought a few years before, which was proven to be a poor assumption. Now you're looking to bring ethics and morals into the discussion you've started.

Why?

You can bring it back and pay more attention next time to the little picture on the box, the demonstration model in the showroom, the image on the label on the pallet racks downstairs, the app on your phone, the website....

I mean come on man, it's not like you didn't have plenty of bloody chances to spot the difference. That is literally child's play.
Are you saying that BMW 520 from 2017 is different from BMW 520 from 2007?
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riku2
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by riku2 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 pm

Upphew wrote:Are you saying that BMW 520 from 2017 is different from BMW 520 from 2007?
i've had both those models and yes, the list of cost savings is endless.

2007 model: boot floor is a reversible carpet on one side, rubber mat on the other. really nice so you can flip it over if carrying dirty items.
2017 model: boot floor is fixed carpet. if you want a rubber liner then buy one separately.

2007 model: front heated seats let you adjust the heat mix of the seat bottom/backrest separately (hotter backrest than the bottom)
2017 model: feature removed. the two parts of the seat share the same heat setting.

2017 model: many features standard in the two zone air conditioning option in 2007 are moved to the more expensive four zone air conditioning option. two zone air conditioning in 2017 is not as good as two zone air conditioning in 2007.

the list goes on with many things removed in newer models, or only included if you pay extra for them now when they were standard in older models.


harryc
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by harryc » Thu May 11, 2017 7:25 pm

Sorry - your BMW example is totally ridiculous.

All cars have 'model year' IDs - and they have BIG differences - including purchase price as 'used cars' - you're not really thinking.

++

I went to the Info desk - I told them I had 4 Billy shelves at home - I wanted a fifth one to match. They gave me the shelf location number - aisle 16 spot 18 or something.

I took the cart - loaded up and paid.Built it at home - and saw it didn't MATCH.

So my fault - yeah, right.

++

All IKEA employees thought it was ridiculous - and they said they see similar greediness every day - no one said decreasing shelf quantity was the result of 'new, improved' -- 'better design' etc. They said their should be a designation indicating a change (BMW 520/1998 is not BMW 520/2009 and no one expects it to be - the year is on your bill of sale and Trafi papers) -- and I was not the first to note the short-change. And they were quite vocal in saying how Sweden makes global decisions and then hides in their offices.


riku2
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by riku2 » Thu May 11, 2017 7:43 pm

The BMW example isn't ridiculous. You might expect a new 520 in 2017 to be better in many ways than a new 520 bought in 2007. We are not comparing a new car with a 10 year old used 2007 model but what you got in 2007 when buying a new 520 with a new 520 in 2017. They have removed features or moved them to be optional when in previous years those features were standard. And all the time the cost has increased. a 520 in 2017 costs more than a 520 in 2007 (ignoring changes in country specific taxation).

The changes to other consumer products is endless.
Hifi components used to have real metal fronts. now the front is plastic made to look like metal.


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wolf80
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by wolf80 » Fri May 12, 2017 12:17 am

harryc wrote:Sorry - your BMW example is totally ridiculous.

All cars have 'model year' IDs - and they have BIG differences - including purchase price as 'used cars' - you're not really thinking.

++

I went to the Info desk - I told them I had 4 Billy shelves at home - I wanted a fifth one to match. They gave me the shelf location number - aisle 16 spot 18 or something.

I took the cart - loaded up and paid.Built it at home - and saw it didn't MATCH.

So my fault - yeah, right.

++

All IKEA employees thought it was ridiculous - and they said they see similar greediness every day - no one said decreasing shelf quantity was the result of 'new, improved' -- 'better design' etc. They said their should be a designation indicating a change (BMW 520/1998 is not BMW 520/2009 and no one expects it to be - the year is on your bill of sale and Trafi papers) -- and I was not the first to note the short-change. And they were quite vocal in saying how Sweden makes global decisions and then hides in their offices.
Did you tell them you wanted the Billy shelf with 3 shelves? No? Then how can the IKEA personnel know what you have at home!

Products constantly change, that is normal and common knowledge. It was clearly your fault not to look at the model in the showroom to see if it matches your older models at home.

People here have brought good examples of products changing, but you choose to ignore them to justify your own mistakes. You are being ridiculous with this! Either bring back your Billy shelves if you hate them so much, or pay the money to get additional shelves like any normal adult would do!


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Karhunkoski
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by Karhunkoski » Fri May 12, 2017 6:33 am

harryc wrote: I went to the Info desk - I told them I had 4 Billy shelves at home - I wanted a fifth one to match. They gave me the shelf location number - aisle 16 spot 18 or something.
So you're expecting the poor guy at the info desk to have in-depth knowledge of any detail changes in all of the product lines? And when they took place? And to inform you of that, just in case you might have bought the product before the change? That's something like 50,000 items.

I think your angry and upset that the product has changed, that's understandable, but it's not IKEA's fault.

You say you have a grandkid, so you're not some flimsy youngster who's crying because he didn't get the sweets he wanted. Time to man-up and realise that the responsibility to check what you buy is your's alone.
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DMC
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by DMC » Fri May 12, 2017 8:37 am

wolf80 wrote:Did you tell them you wanted the Billy shelf with 3 shelves?
The last time I bought a new car I didn't specify that I wanted it with 4 wheels. The last time I bought new trousers I didn't specify that I wanted them with 2 legs. Some assumptions are understandable, even if they are wrong, and I wouldn't give the OP a hard time over this one.
Karhunkoski wrote:I think your angry and upset that the product has changed, that's understandable, but it's not IKEA's fault.
I would say it is IKEA's fault; it was IKEA who made the change after all, and they made it in a way that was likely to catch people out, with no customer benefit. It would have been better if they had changed the product to sell just the carcase with no shelves, and made a "feature" out of selling the shelves separately so the customer could configure their bookcase however they want. That way everyone might be happy.

I quite understand the OP being annoyed by this. I could see myself making the same mistake, and I would also be annoyed. That would be it though. I would mark it down to my own stupidity and count it as another reinforcement of the old "buyer beware" maxim. Many products change over time, some for the better and some not. Always worth checking.


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Karhunkoski
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Re: IKEA - "cheats"

Post by Karhunkoski » Fri May 12, 2017 10:52 am

DMC wrote:I quite understand the OP being annoyed by this. I could see myself making the same mistake, and I would also be annoyed. That would be it though. I would mark it down to my own stupidity and count it as another reinforcement of the old "buyer beware" maxim. Many products change over time, some for the better and some not. Always worth checking.
Agree on all those points.

Agree also that it is "IKEA's fault" that the product changed.

But I still think it's not IKEA's fault that Harry is annoyed, which is what I wrote :)
Karhunkoski wrote: I think your angry and upset that the product has changed, that's understandable, but it's not IKEA's fault.
Political correctness is the belief that it's possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.


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