New Alternative - ?

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harryc
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New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:22 pm

Anybody got any information about where the new group - splinter from Finns Party - is going to get their funds from? The Finns Party certainly won't finance them.

Don't they have to officially register as a party to get any funds - and doesn't the amount of original Finns Party funds remain as same (based on their initial 37 seats)?
Last edited by harryc on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



New Alternative - ?

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harryc
Posts: 1112
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:09 pm
Location: Espoo-Helsinki

Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:44 pm

Here's an update - all sounds pretty crazy IMO - how and why should PS Foundation fund a competitor?

++

Uusi vaihtoehto saattaa saada rahaa Perussuomalaisten tukisäätiöltä Säätiö voisi rahoittaa Uutta vaihtoehtoa ainakin, jos siitä muodostuu puolue.
Perussuomalaisten tukisäätiö aikoo selvittää mahdollisuutta rahoittaa perussuomalaisten eduskuntaryhmästä erkaantunutta Uusi vaihtoehto -ryhmää, kertoo säätiön puheenjohtaja Raimo Vistbacka. Säätiö voisi antaa rahoitusta ainakin, jos eduskuntaryhmästä muodostuu uusi puolue. Vistbacka kertoo, että siinä tapauksessa hän kävisi keskusteluja Valtiontalouden tarkastusviraston kanssa siitä, mikä on oikea toimintatapa sääntöjen mukaan. Vistbacka aikoo kuitenkin katsoa rauhassa, miten tilanne kehittyy.
Raimo Vistbacka on SMP:n ja perussuomalaisten entinen pitkäaikainen kansanedustaja ja Timo Soinin tukija.


Upphew
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by Upphew » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:27 am

harryc wrote:Here's an update - all sounds pretty crazy IMO - how and why should PS Foundation fund a competitor?

++

Uusi vaihtoehto saattaa saada rahaa Perussuomalaisten tukisäätiöltä Säätiö voisi rahoittaa Uutta vaihtoehtoa ainakin, jos siitä muodostuu puolue.
Perussuomalaisten tukisäätiö aikoo selvittää mahdollisuutta rahoittaa perussuomalaisten eduskuntaryhmästä erkaantunutta Uusi vaihtoehto -ryhmää, kertoo säätiön puheenjohtaja Raimo Vistbacka. Säätiö voisi antaa rahoitusta ainakin, jos eduskuntaryhmästä muodostuu uusi puolue. Vistbacka kertoo, että siinä tapauksessa hän kävisi keskusteluja Valtiontalouden tarkastusviraston kanssa siitä, mikä on oikea toimintatapa sääntöjen mukaan. Vistbacka aikoo kuitenkin katsoa rauhassa, miten tilanne kehittyy.
Raimo Vistbacka on SMP:n ja perussuomalaisten entinen pitkäaikainen kansanedustaja ja Timo Soinin tukija.
Because the board agrees with the splinter group and that group could be seen as an continuation for SMP.
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betelgeuse
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:53 pm

harryc wrote:Here's an update - all sounds pretty crazy IMO - how and why should PS Foundation fund a competitor?
The Foundation is actually not that wealthy. Their own capital in the latest balance sheet is just 440k. PS gets 5,6 million in party support. The Foundation is an interesting detail in the whole thing but not in reality not that important for financing.
harryc wrote:Anybody got any information about where the new group - splinter from Finns Party - is going to get their funds from? The Finns Party certainly won't finance them.

Don't they have to officially register as a party to get any funds - and doesn't the amount of original Finns Party funds remain as same (based on their initial 21 seats)?
They don't have to register. In addition to the money that goes to the party the groups in the parliament gets money based on the number of members. They will do fine financially during the term. However, financing a campaign for elections will probably be problematic.


harryc
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:59 pm

Update - YLE

The two groups are also in a dispute over who will receive financial support from the Finns Party support foundation. The New Alternative hasn’t requested funding, and according to party rules would only be eligible for it if the parliamentary group established its own political party and the board of the foundation decided to replace the current Finns Party.


betelgeuse
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:00 pm

harryc wrote:The two groups are also in a dispute over who will receive financial support from the Finns Party support foundation. The New Alternative hasn’t requested funding, and according to party rules would only be eligible for it if the parliamentary group established its own political party and the board of the foundation decided to replace the current Finns Party.
I disagree that the board of the Foundation would have powers to change the rules as they propose. It's something they say they are looking into but I seriously doubt PRH allows it because the Foundations act places strict requirements on it for good reasons. Without such restrictions, taking over Foundations and using the wealth to benefit the boards indirectly would be commonplace.


harryc
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:54 pm

It's going to be interesting how this story develops. It seems this same kind of scenario hasn't been seen before and the legal framework might have some 'possunreiat' - somewhat like the Drumpf situation in US - no one ever thought that kind of person was never imagined to become preident and Drumpf has found such big holes in the legal system that he can drive megabuses through them.


Honest
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by Honest » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Those mega holes are left there intentionally for the big fish. Only small fish are caught in legal nets. There is always a way out for the bigger ones. So don't worry about the current situation. They will come up with some sort of solution/idea sooner or later.

Same goes with tax avoidance, loopholes are left intentionally for the poweful and super rich just as Mr Tump has boasted many times using them.


harryc
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:31 pm

They will come up with some sort of solution/idea sooner or later.
It's usually later - after they've been buried in a gold casket at the age of 95


betelgeuse
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by betelgeuse » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:04 pm

harryc wrote:It's going to be interesting how this story develops. It seems this same kind of scenario hasn't been seen before and the legal framework might have some 'possunreiat' - somewhat like the Drumpf situation in US - no one ever thought that kind of person was never imagined to become preident and Drumpf has found such big holes in the legal system that he can drive megabuses through them.
It's not a unique situation in Foundations that the board tries to subvert money to something else than originally thought of. Do you have any basis for your statement about loop holes in the legal framework?


harryc
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by harryc » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:44 pm

I don't know about whether they are LOOPHOLES but Drumpf has just about pulled off every kind of unethical, immoral stuff - and we constantly read that the US President is immune to whatever.

As for other 'loopholes' taxcodes are written as small volumes - because they contain all kind of exceptions, conditions, exclusions, etc. to make someone or something tax-free.


betelgeuse
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by betelgeuse » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:36 pm

harryc wrote:I don't know about whether they are LOOPHOLES but Drumpf has just about pulled off every kind of unethical, immoral stuff - and we constantly read that the US President is immune to whatever.
And the US president is relevant to Finnish Foundation legislation in what way?
harryc wrote:As for other 'loopholes' taxcodes are written as small volumes - because they contain all kind of exceptions, conditions, exclusions, etc. to make someone or something tax-free.
Finnish tax legislation is short enough for a single person to realistically master. It doesn't mean there wouldn't be exceptions and loop holes of course.


priki
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by priki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:21 pm

betelgeuse wrote:They don't have to register. In addition to the money that goes to the party the groups in the parliament gets money based on the number of members. They will do fine financially during the term. However, financing a campaign for elections will probably be problematic.
Umm.. No. That law was quite recently changed, Timo Soini run that change. If a part of a group in parliament leaves the mother party and starts their own group, they will not get anything, all the money goes to the mother party. I guess he was thinking that Jussi H-a would separate his crew from the PS, but it went the other way around and the law bit his own ankle...


betelgeuse
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:34 pm

priki wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:They don't have to register. In addition to the money that goes to the party the groups in the parliament gets money based on the number of members. They will do fine financially during the term. However, financing a campaign for elections will probably be problematic.
Umm.. No. That law was quite recently changed, Timo Soini run that change. If a part of a group in parliament leaves the mother party and starts their own group, they will not get anything, all the money goes to the mother party. I guess he was thinking that Jussi H-a would separate his crew from the PS, but it went the other way around and the law bit his own ankle...
Sorry but you just do not understand what I wrote. There are many separate streams of money:
  • Money paid to members of parliament directly
  • Money paid to groups in the parliament
  • Money paid to parties
Only the legislation concerning the last one was changed.


Upphew
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Re: New Alternative - ?

Post by Upphew » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:36 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
priki wrote:
betelgeuse wrote:They don't have to register. In addition to the money that goes to the party the groups in the parliament gets money based on the number of members. They will do fine financially during the term. However, financing a campaign for elections will probably be problematic.
Umm.. No. That law was quite recently changed, Timo Soini run that change. If a part of a group in parliament leaves the mother party and starts their own group, they will not get anything, all the money goes to the mother party. I guess he was thinking that Jussi H-a would separate his crew from the PS, but it went the other way around and the law bit his own ankle...
Sorry but you just do not understand what I wrote. There are many separate streams of money:
  • Money paid to members of parliament directly
  • Money paid to groups in the parliament
  • Money paid to parties
Only the legislation concerning the last one was changed.
Groups get paid money too? I thought the parliament pays for the aides and provides work spaces etc. but didn't know they get spending money too.
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