Residence permit on other grounds

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James21
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Hi there friends ,
I am 21 year old man from Kosovo in Southeastern Europe , actually studying here in law faculty . Before two years i was diagnosed with an immune disease called Itp , and then here in Kosovo , the medicine is in very low conditions the doctors too.. :( , There is no cure for that disease and when more lows of my conditions i really dont belive doctors here .. So I would like to ask anyone who knows , if i go to Finland , can I apply for assylum for this reason , or what can i do ?



Residence permit on other grounds

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betelgeuse
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by betelgeuse » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:04 am

James21 wrote:I am 21 year old man from Kosovo in Southeastern Europe , actually studying here in law faculty . Before two years i was diagnosed with an immune disease called Itp , and then here in Kosovo , the medicine is in very low conditions the doctors too.. :( , There is no cure for that disease and when more lows of my conditions i really dont belive doctors here .. So I would like to ask anyone who knows , if i go to Finland , can I apply for assylum for this reason , or what can i do ?
Applying for any reason is a right, however the decision will be negative and you will be deported back.


James21
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:48 pm

Why do you think that the decision would be negative ?


James21
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Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:37 pm

Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:49 pm

betelgeuse wrote:
James21 wrote:I am 21 year old man from Kosovo in Southeastern Europe , actually studying here in law faculty . Before two years i was diagnosed with an immune disease called Itp , and then here in Kosovo , the medicine is in very low conditions the doctors too.. :( , There is no cure for that disease and when more lows of my conditions i really dont belive doctors here .. So I would like to ask anyone who knows , if i go to Finland , can I apply for assylum for this reason , or what can i do ?
Applying for any reason is a right, however the decision will be negative and you will be deported back.
Why do you think the decision will be negative ? This below is from Finnish immigration service

A residence permit in cases where you cannot return from Finland

You will be granted a temporary residence permit if you cannot return to your home country or country of permanent residence for temporary medical reasons. A temporary permit may also be granted if it is impossible for you to return to your home country or country of permanent residence for practical reasons. However, a residence permit is not granted if your return does not take place because you refuse to return to your home country or make it difficult to arrange for your return.

A residence permit on compassionate grounds

You will be granted a continuous residence permit if a negative decision would be perceptibly unreasonable because of your health or ties established in Finland or for some other individual, humane reason. Here, special attention is paid to the circumstances you would encounter in your home country or to the vulnerable position you are in.


betelgeuse
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by betelgeuse » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:18 pm

James21 wrote: A residence permit in cases where you cannot return from Finland

You will be granted a temporary residence permit if you cannot return to your home country or country of permanent residence for temporary medical reasons. A temporary permit may also be granted if it is impossible for you to return to your home country or country of permanent residence for practical reasons. However, a residence permit is not granted if your return does not take place because you refuse to return to your home country or make it difficult to arrange for your return.

A residence permit on compassionate grounds

You will be granted a continuous residence permit if a negative decision would be perceptibly unreasonable because of your health or ties established in Finland or for some other individual, humane reason. Here, special attention is paid to the circumstances you would encounter in your home country or to the vulnerable position you are in.
These would require either for Migri to believe that you can't receive care in Kosovo or that you are not in a condition to travel back there. It did not seem that either condition would apply though I don't claim to be an expert on Kosovo or your condition. With asylum seeker influx Migri seems to have moved policy towards making it harder to get permits.


James21
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:48 am

betelgeuse wrote:
James21 wrote: A residence permit in cases where you cannot return from Finland

You will be granted a temporary residence permit if you cannot return to your home country or country of permanent residence for temporary medical reasons. A temporary permit may also be granted if it is impossible for you to return to your home country or country of permanent residence for practical reasons. However, a residence permit is not granted if your return does not take place because you refuse to return to your home country or make it difficult to arrange for your return.

A residence permit on compassionate grounds

You will be granted a continuous residence permit if a negative decision would be perceptibly unreasonable because of your health or ties established in Finland or for some other individual, humane reason. Here, special attention is paid to the circumstances you would encounter in your home country or to the vulnerable position you are in.
These would require either for Migri to believe that you can't receive care in Kosovo or that you are not in a condition to travel back there. It did not seem that either condition would apply though I don't claim to be an expert on Kosovo or your condition. With asylum seeker influx Migri seems to have moved policy towards making it harder to get permits.
Thank you for responding me , can you tell me , if I apply for that reason, how long will I have to wait till I get the answer ? and its not that i dont receive care in Kosovo, but i dont feel safe here, i have a document from doctors that they suggest me to take care outside of Kosovo.


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rinso
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by rinso » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:03 am

i have a document from doctors that they suggest me to take care outside of Kosovo.
A questionable medical standard leads not automatically to a residence permit.


James21
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:25 am

rinso wrote:
i have a document from doctors that they suggest me to take care outside of Kosovo.
A questionable medical standard leads not automatically to a residence permit.
I think based on those migr laws above , there is a chance to get residence permit .. Do you know when you apply for this residence permit how long does it take to get the answer ?


JuhlaMokka
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by JuhlaMokka » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:51 am

James21 wrote:
rinso wrote:
i have a document from doctors that they suggest me to take care outside of Kosovo.
A questionable medical standard leads not automatically to a residence permit.
I think based on those migr laws above , there is a chance to get residence permit .. Do you know when you apply for this residence permit how long does it take to get the answer ?
If you are so sure, you can try. No one can tell you how long does it take for sure, from 1 month to 1,5 years. But I also tell you, that it's just wasting of your time and money. Low level of doctors it's not a reason at all, as you can freely leave your country for treatment and safely come back. Resident permit's purpose is not about saving money, it should be dangerous to come back, like war or some disaster, to get it. In your case it's not.


James21
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:06 pm

If you are so sure, you can try. No one can tell you how long does it take for sure, from 1 month to 1,5 years. But I also tell you, that it's just wasting of your time and money. Low level of doctors it's not a reason at all, as you can freely leave your country for treatment and safely come back. Resident permit's purpose is not about saving money, it should be dangerous to come back, like war or some disaster, to get it. In your case it's not.[/quote]
You are very right .. But when i read this law : ''You will be granted a continuous residence permit if a negative decision would be perceptibly unreasonable because of your health or ties established in Finland or for some other individual, humane reason. Here, special attention is paid to the circumstances you would encounter in your home country or to the vulnerable position you are in.'' -
It gave me hope because its not that i am trying to save money because i have also very low financial situation , and this residence permit is for human reasons, so that gave me hope , but i dont know... I think those law-s can be interpreted in many ways.. Thank you for your responding and your help


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rinso
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by rinso » Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:27 pm

and this residence permit is for human reasons, so that gave me hope , but i dont know... I think those law-s can be interpreted in many ways.
Some years ago there were the "grandmother cases". Old women who wanted to stay with their children because they needed daily care which was not provided in their home country. They were rejected, even after a lot of media buzz and objections from politicians. Your situation doesn't look half as bad as theirs.


JuhlaMokka
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by JuhlaMokka » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:01 pm

rinso wrote:
and this residence permit is for human reasons, so that gave me hope , but i dont know... I think those law-s can be interpreted in many ways.
Some years ago there were the "grandmother cases". Old women who wanted to stay with their children because they needed daily care which was not provided in their home country. They were rejected, even after a lot of media buzz and objections from politicians. Your situation doesn't look half as bad as theirs.
Right. And in one of the cases, daughter was ready to pay all the needed care by herself, they asked only for B-type RP without social care. And it was rejected anyway.


betelgeuse
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by betelgeuse » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:08 pm

JuhlaMokka wrote:Right. And in one of the cases, daughter was ready to pay all the needed care by herself, they asked only for B-type RP without social care. And it was rejected anyway.
Our legislation lacks a mechanism that would allow someone else to take the burden for social care so an offer can't factor into the decision.


James21
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by James21 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:19 am

Okey .. It seems very hard to get this residence permit based on common law that happend till now..


PJG
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Re: Residence permit on other grounds

Post by PJG » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:02 am

It's more your wishful interpretation of the language as opposed to an understanding of the 'spirit' behind the legislation.

You can apply, by all means. It's not impossible that you might be successful and have an RP granted to you, but I suggest you put aside the 'hope' you refer to in your posts. You should be realistic and limit your expectations about what exactly Finland will do for you. Your illness is serious, but it's not immediately life threatening and even if it were, you need to accept that NO european union member state will grant a residence permit to someone who is effectively looking to come here for the primary purpose of obtaining medical care on their citizens dime. Health services are under considerable pressure here just addressing the needs of the exisiting population. The last thing anyone here wants are people coming to add to that pressure just because they don't like what their doctors tell them at home. Find another doctor. Work and save and pay your way through private healthcare if that's better than what you're being told now. If Finland were to accept your application, they'd be giving a green light to people from all over the world to start applying and many of those would have much greater needs than yours.

EU welfare states like Finland have good systems to provide care for their citizens, who pay for it through comparatively high levels of taxation, not for citizens of other countries who wish their social mechanisms and economies were the same. It's about time people outside of the EU learned to accept this. Taxpayers here, our public service institutions and our politicians are not complete idiots. It's not a 'free for all' and changes to legislation in 2016 removed a lot of the ambiguity and leeway for interpretation as a result. The advice I'd offer would be to immediately stop thinking of Finland (or any other EU state) as the solution to your problems, certainly not as some form of asylum seeker. It's day-dreaming and it will only delay you making a serious plan to address your needs.

If you're serious about it, do well in your studies and then look to further your studies in the EU or to find employment in an EU member state, or in Australia or Canada alternatively. You're a law student so I imagine you're intelligent. You should be smart about this. You're not an oppressed minority in fear for your life or a refugee from war. In effect you're an economic migrant, where medical care is the currency you seek. You go to the very bottom of the list, with little to no hope of getting what you expect as far as most people here would be concerned. That sounds harsh but look at it in black and white terms and the argument comes to an end.


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